So, What was up with the Goths?

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Sokol
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#46

Post by Sokol » 03 May 2003, 11:06

You consider the Byzantine Empire as Rome?

*shrug* Alright, whatever rocks your boat.

Regards,
Sokol

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Victor
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#47

Post by Victor » 03 May 2003, 21:15

Sokol wrote:You consider the Byzantine Empire as Rome?

*shrug* Alright, whatever rocks your boat.

Regards,
Sokol
The Byzantines also considered themselves Romans, at least this is how they reffered to themselves. ;I guess they knew better than me. ;)


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ckleisch
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#48

Post by ckleisch » 03 May 2003, 22:37

Gentlemen, Let me give support to some additional ideas for the reason the Goths had it so easy in attacking Rome in addition to ideas listed by others:
1.) Between ad 200 to ad 284 there were 75 men who became Emperor and were overthrown causing a crisis in confidence. in one year alone 6 men held the title of Emperor and were killed by others.
2.) Civil Wars destroyed all order and moral values.
3.) Government clerk were paralyzed by changing leaders and rulings so nothing was accomplished.
4.) treasury ran out of money, so copper coins were issued replacing silver ones and iniating a money standard change and an economic backlash.
5.) Prices for all goods went up causing an inability by citizens to buy same and a deminishment in trade. Imports declined.
6.) The force of law collapsed with robbery and murder rates sky high.
7.) travel deminished as unsafe.
8.) revolts in provinces increased with veterans soldiers dying reducing the ranks of the (sgt types) who formed the legion cadres.
9.) fear and inability to make money caused Farmers to leave their fields reducing food stuffs
10.) Plaugue broke out and ravaged the Empire for 15 years.
11.) Changes took place for short period of reign under Diocletian in ad 284. Empire was taken over by constantine who became Christian.
12.) Constantine moved to new capital so as to build churches and not have them surrounded by Pagan temples. Removal of government institutions from Rome.
13.) rome became little more than a provincial capital.
14 ) Constantine died and empire split.

By the time the goths arrived rome was little more than a province. the emperor Romulus was the last in ad 476 ending the western empire. The western empire was rotten from inside out and was no where near its previous standard. Foreign soldiers made up the bulk of the garrison and corruption was rampant. Accordingly, Rome was like a house of straw not a house of bricks and it was easy to blow down.

Lars EP
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#49

Post by Lars EP » 04 May 2003, 23:10

Victor wrote:
Sokol wrote:You consider the Byzantine Empire as Rome?

*shrug* Alright, whatever rocks your boat.

Regards,
Sokol
The Byzantines also considered themselves Romans, at least this is how they reffered to themselves. ;I guess they knew better than me. ;)
Actually, they didn't really. Greek quickly replaced latin as the common speech, and in all respects, the Byzantine Empire was much more Greek than Roman. Even the name "The Byzantine Empire" is derived from Byzantium, the original Greek name for Constantinople, later to be Istanbul.

Regards --- Lars

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Korbius
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#50

Post by Korbius » 05 May 2003, 00:48

Lars EP wrote: Actually, they didn't really. Greek quickly replaced latin as the common speech, and in all respects, the Byzantine Empire was much more Greek than Roman. Even the name "The Byzantine Empire" is derived from Byzantium, the original Greek name for Constantinople, later to be Istanbul.

Regards --- Lars
Nonetheless, the Byzantine empire after the fall of the western empire was considered as the extension of the Ancient Roman empire, even though its official language changed to greek.

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David C. Clarke
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#51

Post by David C. Clarke » 05 May 2003, 01:22

Yes, I tend to agree with Korbius. The Byzantine Empire ultimately existed only because it was the Eastern Roman Empire. When the Western Empire ceased to exist, I believe a Gothic King directed that the last Western Emperor's Insignia of State be returned to the Eastern Empire. Whatever form it evolved into, the Eastern Empire owed its existence, its territory and statehood to the Roman Empire. No Roman Empire, no Byzantine Empire.
I am reminded that Harun Al Rashid, Caliph of Baghdad, addressed his letters to a particular Byzantine Emperor:
"To Romulus, dog of a Roman"

Cheers,
~D

Lars EP
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#52

Post by Lars EP » 06 May 2003, 15:29

Korbius wrote:
Lars EP wrote: Actually, they didn't really. Greek quickly replaced latin as the common speech, and in all respects, the Byzantine Empire was much more Greek than Roman. Even the name "The Byzantine Empire" is derived from Byzantium, the original Greek name for Constantinople, later to be Istanbul.

Regards --- Lars
Nonetheless, the Byzantine empire after the fall of the western empire was considered as the extension of the Ancient Roman empire, even though its official language changed to greek.
An extension, yes. And also with Roamn elements. But by and large I consider the Byzantine Emoire more Greek than Roman.

B.t.w. if we count extensions, then the Roman Empire did not disappear before the guns of Napoleon finally silenced the vague spectre know as: The holy German-Roman Empire. :P 8)

Regards --- Lars

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Victor
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#53

Post by Victor » 06 May 2003, 21:18

Lars EP wrote: Actually, they didn't really. Greek quickly replaced latin as the common speech, and in all respects, the Byzantine Empire was much more Greek than Roman. Even the name "The Byzantine Empire" is derived from Byzantium, the original Greek name for Constantinople, later to be Istanbul.

Regards --- Lars
The "byzantine Empire" is a creation of modern historians. The Byzantines referred to themselves as Romans. Read the Alexiad by Anna Comnena and notice how she calls her people.

ChristopherPerrien
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#54

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 07 May 2003, 18:00

Iconsider the Byzantine empire to be a desendant of the Roman Empire.
How can you have a Roman empire without Rome?

The Byzantine's also had a totally different military system- Horse archers based on the Turma(sp?) military districts of Asia minor, this is where I see the most distinction between the two "Empires".

Blame Octavius for the fall of Rome since he did move the center from Rome to Constatinoble.


good stuff- ckleisch

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