Easter Offensive

Discussions on other historical eras.
Globalization41
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Easter Offensive

Post by Globalization41 » 13 Jun 2014 05:29

Hi Bob. ... The Vietnam War was just a bump in the road. America was in no way weakened after strategically retreating from Southeast Asia. Strategic Air Command (SAC) still maintained a massive bomber force and ground-based inter-continental missiles inside the U.S. ready to retaliate in case of sneak attack. U.S. Navy subs patrolled the oceans. The Soviet-U.S. demarcation line in Europe bristled from north to south with atomic missiles manned by the U.S. & Red Army. U.S. and NATO warplanes remained on full alert, ready to launch instantly and within a few minutes of Warsaw Pact concentrations. ... I'm not convinced Boeing's prosperity depends on factories outside of America. ... Actually Medicare and Social Security recirculate wealth within America and stimulate the economy. More hospitals, housing, transportation, food, bridges, roads, etc., are needed. It's the venture capitalists who would siphon wealth from the U.S. by redistributing wealth creation away from America, a deceptive form of world socialism.

4/29/1972, N. Vietnamese Lay Siege to Quang Tri, B-52s Pour Bombs on Attackers, U.S. Destroyers Blaze Away at Enemy, Part 1

4/29/1972, N. Vietnamese Lay Siege to Quang Tri, B-52s Pour Bombs on Attackers, U.S. Destroyers Blaze Away at Enemy, Part 2

4/29/1972, By James Reston, Will the Russians Heed Nixon's Signal on Hanoi?

4/29/1972; Reggie Jackson Breaks Slump, Lifts A's Over Brewers; Holtzman Hurls Five-Hitter; A's Strand 13

4/29/1972, Refugees by the Thousands Trudge out of Quang Tri as North Vietnamese Close In

4/29/1972; Astronauts Sailing for Hawaii, Pass Detailed Medical Examination Given on Board Aircraft Carrier

4/29/1972, U.S. Tests Parachute for Mars Landing in Mojave Desert

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South
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Re: Easter Offensive

Post by South » 13 Jun 2014 08:53

Good morning Globe,

In chron order - with as much context as appropriate and realistic for this substitute for a hotel conference room in the eg Italian lakes area, the Canadian Rockies or an Asian resort location;

Yes, the Vietnam War was just a "bump in the road". The US lost the Vietnam War but the US won the Second Indochina War.....allowing me to say the US did NOT - strategically - retreat from Southeast Asia. Thus, overall, concur.

Completely concur. The US Strategic Air Command ("SAC") and the rest of the nuclear triade was the world's state of the art and more lethal than the USSR's.

Boeing's prosperity did require a large industrial presence in China. The economic threat...in business terms, the contractual requirement...was that a percentage of Chinese labor and locally-produced components must be produced in China or Beijing would look at AirBus sales literature.

In a strict sense using narrow definitions of economic concepts, Medicare and Social Security disbursements do recirculate wealth within the US. In the more accurate sense involving concepts and doctrines of political economy, the recirculation is non-productive. The US economy is not stimulated by these transfer payments.

In the broad sense, concur re venture capitalists but not acceptable at AHF to present their various......er...their economic programs.


Warm regards,

Bob

Globalization41
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Easter Offensive

Post by Globalization41 » 14 Jun 2014 04:48


South
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Re: Easter Offensive

Post by South » 15 Jun 2014 09:19

Good morning Globe,

Within the topic "Easter Offensive", there was no strategic retreat. After Shanghai I, the US was still present on the southern periphery of China - and inside China, economically speaking.

Congress had to retreat from Vietnam. The US domestic political disturbances (Key term: "Operation Garden Plot" [US Army riot control augmentation to US police departments -USMC also involved]) were too devastating.

Yes, eventually Boeing will be forced out of China. It is a trade-off. Without the current "breathing space" of major production in China, Boeing would have realistically enough gone into receivership because of competive AirBus and increasing US domestic labor costs.

It's the big question of today (and thus ineligible for discussion here) re "Recirculation of wealth away from the U.S........."


Warm regards,

Bob

Globalization41
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Easter Offensive

Post by Globalization41 » 16 Jun 2014 06:07

Hi. Bob. ... Nixon wanted to turn the war over to South Vietnam by withdrawing U.S. infantry troops. By 1972, redeployment of U.S. ground troops had left the South weaker, adding another negative to it's ongoing operational inefficiency and lack of motivation due to corruption. To defend the U.S. withdrawal while supporting the South, Nixon provided U.S. air support and military equipment for the South Vietnamese Army. This worked until Nixon's support in Congress began to wane due to the Watergate Scandal, resulting in Congress setting a funding deadline of August 15, 1973, for combat missions. ... The U.S. air counteroffensive blocked the North's aggression in 1972, but in 1975, without U.S. air support, the South collapsed quickly when the North launched their final offensive. Laos and Cambodia fell to communist forces also. However (thanks to Johnson & Nixon) Thailand did not fall to communist expansion, which lost steam due to overextension, excesses in Cambodia, and intra-regional rivalries. ... South Korea, with water on three sides, was more easily defended against communism. ... Japan was not difficult to defend against Soviet aggression. It was an island with a protectionist economy. ... West Germany had two choices: the U.S. (prosperity) or the U.S.S.R. (slavery).

4/29/1972, Communist Units Shatter South Vietnamese Lines, B-52s Blunt North's Advance on Quang Tri, then Turn to Hue

4/29/1972, Expos Trip Giants 8-6, Mike Marshall Gets Victory in Relief, Kingman HR, Henderson HR, Bonds Triple

Note: Mike Marshall threw 208 inning in relief in 1974 for the Dodgers, appearing in 106 games, winning 15, losing 12, and compiling a 2.42 ERA.

4/29/1972, U.S. Spent $17.73 Billion on Welfare in 1971

4/29/1972, Vida Blue ('71 Cy Young Winner at 24-8, 1.82 ERA, 24 CGs) Declines Finley Offer, Ready to Work in Business or Acting

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South
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Re: Easter Offensive

Post by South » 16 Jun 2014 18:20

Good afternoon Globe,

I am familiar with presented material.

I do want to add one key point even if only for clarity.

South Vietnam's "problem" was not just operational inefficiency and lack of motivation/corruption. Imbedded throughout the South Vietnamese government (and society)-and especially the Army of Vietnam ("ARVN")-were "sleeper" people with allegiance to North Vietnam.


Warm regards,

Bob

Globalization41
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Easter Offensive

Post by Globalization41 » 16 Jun 2014 19:52


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Easter Offensive

Post by Globalization41 » 22 Jun 2014 16:08

4/30/1972, Low-Level Terror Raids up from Four to 55 a Day Since N. Vietnamese Offensive Fanned Out, Farmers Hoarding Rice

4/30/1972, American Special Forces (Green Berets) Facing Cuts

4/30/1972, Ultimate Scientific Goal of Moon Trips Still Elusive

4/30/1972, Tigers Top White Sox 6-1, Lolich Bests Wood, Freehan HR, Stanley HR, Dick Allen HR, Horton Triple & HR

4/30/1972, Julius Erving Grabs 32 Rebounds & Scores 24 Points, Virginia Squires Roar Past New York Nets 116-107

4/30/1972, Finley Accuses Baseball Holdout Blue of Wanting to Be Movie Star, Kuhn Orders Finley not to Withdraw Latest Offer

4/30/1972, Oakland's Catfish Hunter & Rollie Fingers Combine to Stymie Milwaukee Brewers 2-1

5/1/1972, S. Viet Generals in Quang Tri Abandon Gov't Troops, 40 U.S. Advisors Stay Behind with Vietnamese Still Fighting, Part 1

5/1/1972, S. Viet Generals in Quang Tri Abandon Gov't Troops, 40 U.S. Advisors Stay Behind with Vietnamese Still Fighting, Part 2

5/1/1972, Jack Anderson Charges FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover with Supplying L.B.J. with Intimate Info on Public Figures, Part 1

5/1/1972, Jack Anderson Charges FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover with Supplying L.B.J. with Intimate Info on Public Figures, Part 2

5/1/1972, Soviet Union Awards 1970-71 International Lenin Peace Prizes (for Outstanding Service in Struggle for Peace)

5/1/1972, Armed Terrorists Overpower Guards & Torch Naval Fuel Warehouse on the Buenos Aires Waterfront

5/1/1972; George Bush, U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., Says People's Republic of China Delegation Has Not Yet Asserted Itself

5/1/1972, Sadat Tells May Day Rally in Alexandria that Soviet Backing Will Eventually Allow for Defeat & Humiliation of Israel

5/1/1972; National, American League Box Scores

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Globalization41
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Easter Offensive

Post by Globalization41 » 23 Jun 2014 14:49


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Easter Offensive

Post by Globalization41 » 24 Jun 2014 15:17

5/1/1972; U.S. Advisors Evacuated from Quang Tri; Shot-Down U.S. Pilot Radios from Quang Tri: Gov't Troops Still Fighting, Part 1

5/1/1972; U.S. Advisors Evacuated from Quang Tri; Shot-Down U.S. Pilot Radios from Quang Tri: Gov't Troops Still Fighting, Part 2

Photo, B-52 Bomb Loaders (Sometimes Called BB Stackers)

5/1/1972, Jack Anderson Testifies at Gov't Secrecy Hearing that FBI Chief Hoover Happily Snoops on Love Lives of High & Mighty

5/1/1972, General Abrams in Saigon Believes Many-Sided Enemy Attack Will Be Blunted Because S. Viets Can Radio for Air Support

5/1/1972; Dodgers' Don Sutton Blanks Mets 7-0 for Sutton's 4th Win; Bill Russell Doubles, Homers, & Drives in Four Runs

5/1/1972; Pat Smith, American Doctor, Evacuated from Highlands Hospital She Founded; Says There's No Hope for Kontum, Part 1

5/1/1972; Pat Smith, American Doctor, Evacuated from Highlands Hospital She Founded; Says There's No Hope for Kontum, Part 2

5/1/1972, Former King of Burundi Killed During Coup Attempt, Uganda President Idi Amin Claims Ex-King Was Promised Amnesty

5/1/1972, U.S. Bombing of Oil Storage Facilities Near Hanoi & Haiphong Draws Mig Support Away from N. Viet Offensive in South

5/1/1972, U.S.S.R. Encouraging Arabs to War on Israel While Nixon Tied Down in Vietnam

5/1/1972, Nixon Warns Hanoi It's Running Risk with Current Offensive, Says Viet Bloodbath Would Stain U.S. if S. Vietnam Falls

5/1/1972, Amtrak Celebrates First Anniversary, Part 1

5/1/1972, Amtrak Celebrates First Anniversary, Part 2

5/1/1972, Senator Proxmire Concludes Eight Months of Anti-Inflation Controls Not Working

5/1/1972, Herrmann Slams as White Sox Win 6-3 in Detroit, Orta HR, Cash HR, Forster Hurls Four Scoreless Innings in Relief

5/1/1972, Baseball Scoreboard

5/1/1972, Scientists Get First Look at Rocks from Moon's Highlands, Apollo 16 Astronauts Continue Technical Debriefings

5/1/1972, Eight U.S. House Members Blame Reescalating Vietnam War on Nixon for Calling off Paris Peace Talks

5/1/1972, U.S. Productivity & Efficiency Stalls, Absenteeism Plagues U.S. Plants, U.S. "Has Gotten a Little Fat & Lazy"

Note: The eventual redistribution of steel manufacturing away from the U.S. increased the need to supplement unemployment compensation by printing more food stamps and contributed negatively to the above-mentioned "fat and lazy" trend.

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Easter Offensive

Post by Globalization41 » 26 Jun 2014 03:35

5/2/1972; U.S. Rescues 80 American Advisors from Quang Tri in Daring Helicopter Extraction, Losing Two Covering Aircraft, Part 1

5/2/1972; U.S. Rescues 80 American Advisors from Quang Tri in Daring Helicopter Extraction, Losing Two Covering Aircraft, Part 2

5/2/1972; Wallace vs. Humphrey: Big Test in W. Va.; Organized Labor Pamphleteers Against Wallace, but Workers Prefer Wallace

5/2/1972; Republican Governors, Meeting at White Sulfur Springs, W. Va., Approve of Nixon Strategy of Winding Down War

5/2/1972, Bill Seeks Phaseout of 18% Emergency Liquor Tax; Revenue Last Year - $70.6 Million; Expected this Year - $73.8 Million

5/2/1972; Humphrey, McGovern Roam Across Ohio Campaign Battleground, Hunting for Votes, Part 1

5/2/1972; Humphrey, McGovern Roam Across Ohio Campaign Battleground, Hunting for Votes, Part 2

5/2/1972; Sadat Says U.S.S.R. Promised Sufficient Backing to Enable Egypt to Go to War with Israel, Predicts Two Million Deaths

5/2/1972, FBI Chief J. Edgar Hoover Passes Away in Sleep, Found by Maid, Held FBI Post for 48 Years, Part 1

5/2/1972, FBI Chief J. Edgar Hoover Passes Away in Sleep, Found by Maid, Held FBI Post for 48 Years, Part 2

5/2/1972, Contingent of 5,000 Marines off Coast May Be Needed to Screen Withdrawal from Vietnam if Communists Threaten

5/2/1972, Reds Push On (Scroll up for contemporary battle map.)

5/2/1972, U.S. Launches 426 Air Strikes Against Quang Tri Sector, Two Columns of N. Viets Advancing on Refugee-Swollen Hue

Note: Used extensively in Vietnam during 1972, the F-4 Phantom Fighter-Bomber could haul a 18,650-pound bomb load, compared to the WWII B-17 Flying Fortress, which carried 9,600 lbs. of bombs.

5/2/1972, Blue Day for A.L. Hitters, 1971 MVP Vida Signs for $63,000, Wanted $92,500, Earned $14,500 in 1971, 24-8 in 1971

5/2/1972, Astros Edge Bucs 9-8, Jim Winn Hits Grand Slam, Stargell Rests Bad Knee, Clemente - 3 Hits, Double, HR, 3 RBIs, Part 1

5/2/1972; Astros Edge Bucs 9-8; Jim Winn Hits Grand Slam; Stargell Rests Bad Knee; Clemente - 3 Hits, Double, HR, 3 RBIs, Part 2

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Easter Offensive

Post by Globalization41 » 27 Jun 2014 18:41

5/2/1972, More than 350,000 Refugees on the Roads of S. Vietnam Seeking to Escape Heavy Fighting in Northern Provinces, Part 1

5/2/1972, More than 350,000 Refugees on the Roads of S. Vietnam Seeking to Escape Heavy Fighting in Northern Provinces, Part 2

5/2/1972, Newsstand Operator Says Hoover One of Greatest Americans of All Time, Pittsburgh Police Say They Lost a Great Friend

5/2/1972, Half-Million Stage Anti-Communist Rally in Seoul, Rally Denounces N. Korea for Seeking to Make All of Korea Communist

5/2/1972, Political Violence Threatens China-Japan-U.S.S.R.-U.S. Global System, Europe Expected to Become Fifth Global Center

5/2/1972, Soviet Scientists Draw up New Map Showing Antarctic Region Without Its Ice

5/2/1972, J. Reston: Only Logical Explanation of Democratic Presidential Campaign So Far Is Republicans Must Have Planned It

5/2/1972, U. of Montana Professor Says Bombing a Failure, Estimates U.S. Has Dropped Three Times More Tonnage than in WWII

Note: Economically, the U.S. still created its own wealth in the form of manufacturing and thus could easily afford a massive bombing campaign (on the scale of WWII), the Cold War, and sending men to the moon.

5/2/1972, Price of Gold on Free Market in London Reaches Postwar High of $50.45 Per Ounce

5/2/1972, McCarthy (Who Ran on an Anti-War Ticket in 1968) Has No Decision on Presidential Aspirations

5/2/1972; Vida Blue Says He's Ready to Play Ball; Flies to Boston to Sign 1972 Contract with Oakland; Tells ABC, Kuhn Is Nice Guy

5/2/1972, Montanez Breaks up Selma-Osteen Scoreless Duel in Top of 8th with Two-Run HR, Selma CG 3H, Phils Edge Dodgers 2-1

5/2/1972, Chi-Chi Rodriguez Defeats Billy Casper in Sudden Death Playoff for $25,000 First Prize in Bryon Nelson Golf Classic

5/2/1972, Lakers-Knicks Set for Game 3 of NBA Championship at Madison Square Garden

1972 NBA Final Standings

5/2/1972, N. Viet Troops Launch New Attacks in Coastal Low Lands, Hanoi Boasts Hue Is Doomed, 7th Fleet Adds Aircraft Carrier

5/2/1972, Rescue Helicopters Evacuate Americans from Quang Tri, One Chopper Ambushed by N. Viet Troops After Fake SOS

5/2/1972, Nixon-Brezhnev Close to Strategic Arms Accord, Ziegler Says Talks Relate to Broadening Scope of Offensive Freeze

The Brezhnev Doctrine

Leonid Brezhnev, The History Guide

Excerpt: During World War II Brezhnev served as a political commissar in the Red Army, advancing in rank until he became a major general (1943) and head of the political commissars on the Ukrainian front.

Cold War Files: Leonid Illyich Brezhnev

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Easter Offensive

Post by Globalization41 » 30 Jun 2014 04:17

5/2/1972, Weary Columns of S. Vietnamese Rangers & Marines Fleeing Quang Tri in Disorder Along Highway 1, Quang Tri Ablaze

5/2/1972, Nixon Mourns Hoover's Death

5/2/1972, Nixon Suspends POW Issue While Undertaking Aerial Counteroffensive; Hanoi Uses POWs as Propaganda Exhibits

5/2/1972, Bud Harrelson Hits First HR in Two Years, Mets Whip Giants 7-4, Seaver Fans 12, Rader HR, Speier HR, Henderson HR

5/2/1972, Soviets Test New Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missile with Range of More than 3,000 Miles

5/2/1972, Food Stamp Program Gets Underway, Part 1

5/2/1972, Food Stamp Program Gets Underway, Part 2

5/3/1972; Senior U.S. Officer Calls Quang Tri Major Defeat, Not Strategic Retreat; U.S. Fighter-Bombers Fly 649 Strikes, Part 1

5/3/1972; Senior U.S. Officer Calls Quang Tri Major Defeat, Not Strategic Retreat; U.S. Fighter-Bombers Fly 649 Strikes, Part 2

5/3/1972, Nation Mourns Death of FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, Nixon Will Deliver Eulogy Tomorrow, Part 1

5/3/1972, Nation Mourns Death of FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, Nixon Will Deliver Eulogy Tomorrow, Part 2

5/3/1972; North Vietnamese Invasion Is Powerful, Set-Piece, Conventional-War Offensive Unmatched Since China Entered Korea

5/3/1972, Increased Sadism & Brutality in Films Discussed; Unmentionable Cruelty on Screen Compared to Nazi-Era Horrors

5/3/1972, Major League Box Scores

5/3/1972, Antiwar Militancy Returns to College Campuses, National Guard Breaks up Looters & Attacks on Police at U. of Maryland

5/3/1972, Cartoon, "Stop the Bombing," Protesting Anti-War Student Throwing Bombs

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