The Case for Colonialism

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wm
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The Case for Colonialism

#1

Post by wm » 24 Jun 2018, 22:13

For the last hundred years, Western colonialism has had a bad name. Colonialism has virtually disappeared from international affairs, and there is no easier way to discredit a political idea or opponent than to raise the cry of “colonialism.” When South African opposition politician Helen Zille tweeted in 2017 that Singapore’s success was in part attributable to its ability to “build on valuable aspects of colonial heritage,” she was vilified by the press, disciplined by her party, and put under investigation by the country’s human rights commission.

It is high time to reevaluate this pejorative meaning. The notion that colonialism is always and everywhere a bad thing needs to be rethought in light of the grave human toll of a century of anti-colonial regimes and policies. The case for Western colonialism is about rethinking the past as well as improving the future. It involves reaffirming the primacy of human lives, universal values, and shared responsibilities—the civilizing mission without scare quotes --that led to improvements in living conditions for most Third World peoples during most episodes of Western colonialism. It also involves learning how to unlock those benefits again. Western and non-Western countries should reclaim the colonial toolkit and language as part of their commitment to effective governance and international order.

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Re: The Case for Colonialism

#2

Post by South » 25 Jun 2018, 12:59

Good morning Wm.

If there is a term "ultra-broad" with an example, this is it.

The results of the posed question / matter are in. First some commentary on some terms used.

"Universal values" are not universal. This includes the "primacy of human lives". Suicide vests are not fashion statements.

Colonialism has been a recent feature of international affairs. Guantanamo Bay is still frequently discussed among the political classes......along with the British Sovereign Base Areas on the island of Cyprus. The 1982 US expulsion from Beirut saw US wounded airlifted to the base with the RAF hospital. Russia's "enclaves" in and around Georgia...South O-Set - Ah or some similar pronunciation comes to mind. China's new fishing villages and weather stations in the Spratleys gets listed by some. Was Northern Island a matter of international discussions a couple of decades ago ? Recall Marc Rich of Zug, Switzerland and his business venture in Cabinda Province, Angola (not attached to Angola).

Do note that the definition of "sovereignty" has changed, especially since the end of WWII. This is why I cannot discuss the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, Koror, Palau, Okinawa and the south Kuriles.

The benefits of WESTERN colonialism are many and helpful to the locals. Although Ho Chi Minh might not have admitted it, Pasteurization was appreciated in his land by those who could afford pasteurized products. We can see the same with the Wilhelm Roentgen's discovery leading to the X-ray machine. Those in German colonies just might have benefited from its introduction. Public health measures allowed Batavia and the later Indonesia to transition from a disease-infested place to a place with less disease. Currently Singapore is the highlight of Asia. It used to be Magsaysay's Philippines. Harry Lee copied the best of the colonial attributes and ditched the trash. See "The P.A.P. Story".

The results are in. The Singapore model guides much of what's going on today - adjusted to the macro-scale.

Now, my above is real, early AM rambling ! It's incomplete and omitting the problems. Still, "New York Painless", dentistry with some pain-killers, was exported to the US coloni....to the US insular possessions and is still most appreciated.

Transmitting from a former proprietary colony

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA


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RE: A Case For Colonialism - (And A Box Of Granola).

#3

Post by Robert Rojas » 26 Jun 2018, 01:28

Greetings to both citizen 'wm' and the community as a whole. Howdy 'wm'! Well sir, in respect to your introductory posting of Sunday - June 24, 2018 - 12:13pm, just to sate the curiosity of old yours truly, what exactly ARE YOUR INDIVDUAL THOUGHTS on this selected topic of interest? I do not know what has motivated you to broach this topic, but it is certainly fraught with a wide range of ideological components. In short. this is quite a weighty topic that has the potential to bring every FRUIT, NUT and FLAKE out of the forum's figurative woodwork. So, with that said, what are YOUR topical parameters and ground rules for this creation of yours? Inquiring minds want to know. Well, that's my initial two cents worth on this provocative topic of interest - for now anyway. In any case, I would like to bid you a copacetic day over in your corner of the ever enduring land of Poland - or was that Germany at one time? Colonialism indeed!

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob :idea: :? :|
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it" - Robert E. Lee

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Re: The Case for Colonialism

#4

Post by wm » 27 Jun 2018, 18:02

Greetings Uncle Bob, unfortunately I haven't read it so I have no thoughts on this topic.
But I know that the paper above was mass attacked by people called by their opponents "deranged left", was censored from Internet, and only have been reintroduced a few days ago. So maybe it's worth reading.

The author is not alone, here is another:
Marx considered British rule in India in his day a progressive force, not for any especially high-minded reason but simply because it was better than the petty, incompetent despotisms it replaced.
l once had a lesson from Jawaharlal Nehru on the flexible, matter-of-fact fashion in which this subject should be regarded.
l asked him what, in his view, would have been the optimal date for the British to have departed India.
He responded with a convincing show of indignation by asking what business they ever had being there in the first place.
I reminded him that P. C. Mahalanobis, the noted statistician and a scholar whose credentials as an Indian nationalist were not in doubt, had said that for at least a hundred years the British in Bengal were regarded as liberators.
Nehru relaxed, smiled, and said that they should have left after the First World War.

John Kenneth Galbraith, The Voice of the Poor: Essays in Economic and Political Persuasion

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RE: The Case for Colonialism.

#5

Post by Robert Rojas » 28 Jun 2018, 00:23

Greetings to both citizen 'wm' and the community as a whole. Howdy 'wm'! Well sir, in respect to your posting of Wednesday - June 27, 2018 - 8:02am, old yours truly would like to convey my appreciation for your input on this matter. As you have previously noted, this particular topic can AND will generate a great deal of passionate responses from all shades of the ideological spectrum. I do not know if you are aware of this or not, but the author of your latest excerpt is the late Doctor John Kenneth Galbraith. The learned gentleman was, for a greater part of his academic career, an Economist. He was also a convinced liberal with not so closeted sympathies with all of the usual suspects within the progressive pantheon. As much as I might have a plethora of philosophical differences with his weltanschauung, I would never go as far to characterize the good Doctor as deranged. Now, I believe you can see the problem here. Your readership is likely to line up on this topic along ideological lines. In short, no one will be listening when everyone is hell bent on shouting. Much to his eternal credit, old brother South has quite a knack for bringing order out of chaos and his ad hoc contribution on the fractious topic of COLONIALISM will likely be the intellectual high point of your thread. As for myself, old Uncle Bob has far too many conflicts of interest to offer a clinically nonpartisan point-of-view on your topic of interest. Now you know! Well, that's my latest two cents worth on this controversial topic of interest - for now anyway. In any case, I would like to bid you a copacetic day over in the ever enduring land of Poland.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob :idea: :|
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it" - Robert E. Lee

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Re: The Case for Colonialism

#6

Post by wm » 01 Jul 2018, 01:40

I believe the deranged era is just two years old so probably Mr. Galbraith shouldn't be called "deranged."
I know who he was, as a kid I watched his "The Age of Uncertainty" and was mighty impressed. Unfortunately, it is entirely irrelevant and unwatchable today.

Here is more, from not-as-famous historian and author H. W. Crocker III:

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Re: The Case for Colonialism

#7

Post by wm » 01 Jul 2018, 01:51

South wrote:"Universal values" are not universal. This includes the "primacy of human lives".
Navigare necesse est

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RE: July 04, 1776

#8

Post by Robert Rojas » 01 Jul 2018, 06:00

Greetings to both citizen 'wm' and the community as a whole. Howdy 'wm'! Well sir, in respect to your installment of Saturday - June 30, 2018 - 3:40pm. as with most vignettes, old yours truly reviewed Mr. Henry William Crocker The Third's presentation with a wide range of emotions. It is his assertion that "IF YOU LIVE IN FREEDOM, THANK THE BRITISH". Now, as a citizen of the United States of America, I live in freedom TODAY due to the timely intervention of the nation of France at the Battle of Yorktown in the COLONY of Virginia during the course of the American War for Independence - a war that began on April 19, 1775 when a handful of disgruntled shopkeepers and farmers confronted and FOUGHT the troops of the British Army at the town of Lexington in the COLONY of Massachusetts. After all was said and done, Great Britain's thirteen COLONIES in North America morphed into the thirteen STATES of the free and wholly independent United States of America. Ironically, it was the Yankee upstarts in North America that made a CASE AGAINST COLONIALISM. It is also ironic that the United States of America has a WRITTEN constitution while the United Kingdom does NOT have a WRITTEN constitution. So, al least in my case anyway, I DO LIVE IN FREEDOM and I THANK MY POLITICAL ANCESTORS for throwing off the shackles of the "enlightened" British Empire. Yes, this topic is certainly getting off on the right foot! Well, that's my latest Yankee two cents worth on this controversial subject of interest - for now anyway. In any case, I would like to bid you a copacetic day over in the ever enduring land of Poland.


Best Regards,
Uncle Bob :idea: :|
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it" - Robert E. Lee

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Re: The Case for Colonialism

#9

Post by South » 01 Jul 2018, 07:15

Good morning Wm,

Civilization is new. Advanced-level civilization is very, very new.

THE SACRIFICE OF IPHIGENEIA, Bertholet Flemalle.


~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

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Re: The Case for Colonialism

#10

Post by South » 01 Jul 2018, 07:48

Good morning Wm,

Ref: "the deranged era";
Re: "Galbraith";

The "deranged era must surely encompass the era from the transition from agriculture as the primary aspect of societies to the industrialized platforms for mass murders. It was more than 2 years duration.

Galbraith was not deranged but rather a product of hagiography. He was a "jet set" member of the Eastern Establishment. Milton Friedman believed Galbraith was just too heavy into aristocracy in his economic writings.

.......

There must be reasons, some legitimate and some not, that all do not accept the British as injectors of freedom throughout their world presence. Whether some British soldiers trashing some summer palace or British sheriffs working the law and order portfolio on the Emerald Isle, there are antagonistic views in re "freedom". Did all Popes support England's King Henry VIII ?

Civilization is new. Advanced-level civilization is very, very new.

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

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