Jeju Island, South Korean

[South]

https://www.voanews.com/a/tragic-histor ... 07109.html


Good morning all,

Article about Jeju Island, the "Hawaii of Korea", and the insurrection followed by Seoul's response.



~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[Globalization41]

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/135023211

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18070968

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69111983

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2744592

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2744663

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/248269695

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/248268654

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18071093

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/195096078

Thanks a bunch Bob. I quickly found some contemporary articles on Korean election violence from the May 10-11, 1948, Australian newspapers, this period being mentioned in the VOA article linked by Bob. ... … I like the contemporary articles because they are written without 20-20 hindsight. … Follows are some links to Cheju Island, referred to in Bob's linked-to article.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/46902270

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2865512

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2865453

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/76433936

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/248166544

I wonder how long it takes to build a prosperous democracy? If democracy is defined as "no Jim Crow", then we're talking two centuries using the U.S. model. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, and Germany came out ok. Finland seemingly took to democracy like a duck on water. Democracy works good in Australia, Canada, Europe, and England.

Globalization41.

[Robert Rojas]

Greetings to both brother South and the community as a whole. Howdy Bob! Well sir, in respect to your introductory posting of Wednesday - August 01, 2018 - 1:00am, old yours truly is of the layman's opinion that the whole sordid business of Jeju Island is (or was) the entire Korean War in microcosm. Both sides engaged in varying degrees of extrajudicial excess with a great many innocent bystanders being swept up in the ideological maelstrom. Unfortunately, you cannot change the past and what is done is DONE. It should not come as any major surprise that the tourism on Jeju Island has an ill disguised Anti-American agenda. It is just an outgrowth of the ill disguised Anti-Americanism that exists to this very day in the contemporary Republic of Korea itself. Some folks need to be reminded that the Republic of Korea has only had social democratically elected governments since year 1988. Prior to year 1988, the Republic of Korea had nothing but a succession of authoritarian strongmen running the show with the tacit blessings of both Democrat and Republican administrations in the District of Columbia. Now, at least from my limited perspective anyway, it is my assertion that the present Chief Executive of the Republic of Korea appears to be incrementally taking that nation back down the road of authoritarianism. In short, Moon Jae-in is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Are we having fun yet? Well, that's my initial two Yankee cents worth on this all but forgotten slice of angst ridden history from the conflict that is often called the FORGOTTEN WAR - for now anyway. In any case, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in the Old Dominion that is the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob

[Robert Rojas]

Greetings to both brother Globalization41 and the community as a whole. Howdy G41! Well sir, in deference to your point OR points-of-view as articulated within your posting of Wednesday - August 01, 2018 - 5:10am, old yours truly fully realizes that this might come across as nitpicking, but there is certainly one nation on the continent of Europe that clearly does NOT qualify as a Social Democracy. That nation is BELARUS. Apart from the nation of BELARUS, given its present societal and political state of affairs, the same could be also be easily inferred about the contemporary RUSSIAN FEDERATION. Finally, in the broader scheme of things, there are many Social Democracies that are far being prosperous (i.e. Costa Rica) and there are Dictatorships that are wealthy beyond belief (i.e. Peoples Republic of China). It's just some passing food for thought. Well, that's my latest two cents worth on this expansive topic of interest - for now anyway. In any case, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in your corner of our former paradise that was once the Golden State of California.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob

[Globalization41]

Nice to hear from you Uncle Bob. … I prefer the phrase "prosperous democracy" over "social democracy." Social democracy is too expensive without prosperity. … South Korea is a bad-ass little country. Had North Korea launched a full-scale invasion in the 1960s or forward (and without U.S. intervention) the North would have run wild for a couple of days at the most. After that, the South would easily have wipe out the invaders. … North Korea should switch to a tourist/capitalist economy. They need more wealth creation and less marching. After all, North Korea stages the best military parades. That's a lot of untapped talent. … I was unaware Belarus was part of Europe. So let me say instead, western Europe is a prosperous democracy. I'm guessing Belarus is still a century or two away from becoming a prosperous democracy. They might become prosperous before then, but without the democracy part. They've got plenty of time. The sun will burn for another six-billion years.

Globalization41.

[South]

Good morning Uncle Bob and Globe 41,

Much material here. Will try to address some points aware that some will be missed. Will reply to missed items of course. NOTHING replaces a good old hotel conference room to develop all this stuff. Appreciate the Aussie links; will glance at later.

The 1948 Korean elections and violence was background influencing the Eisenhower administration to avoid the 1956 elections scheduled for Vietnam.

What is a "prosperous democracy" ? "Jim Crow" is the US version of India's "Dalit" class - the "Untouchables" made illegal in 1973 [?]. Jim Crow is still a large and visible presence in the US, HOWEVER it's the northern US cities with the racially-segregated schools. I believe some famous high-tech cities have racially-segregated housing eg Menlo Park, Calif, People's Democratic Republic of San Francisco, Streisand's Malibu. I'm relating this to the immediate post WWII mess in Asia.....Europe was a little different; much agreed to at some conferences.

The reunified Germany is a powerhouse but a large component of the citizenry have not experienced "prosperity". Add the immigrants to this. Frau Angela has desperate labor shortages - and labor economics gets priority over developing a "middle class". Taiwan is a political parallel to the Bahamas. Both are political components of nearby Great Powers less a nice flag. South Korea and Japan are literally dying out: too small of a population with inadequate replacement of its citizenry. Speaking of "Europe"; How is democracy faring in Hungary ? in Moldova ?

Uncle Bob;

Is not South Korea the US garrison on the southern periphery of the Middle Kingdom ? The place is anti-American because the people and sponsors are anti-American.

Without "discussing" current events, we're probably OK, - but "wolf" in sheep's garments ... ... alerts Mrs Ingred Newkirk of PETA about negative connotations in re wolves.

North Korea is a territorial component of China. China's only access to the Sea of Japan is via its long term leasehold at the NK port of Rajin. Small fiefdoms will not interfere with Dragon.

Globe;

Another Gold Medal w/ Gold Leaf Clusters ! The "best military parades" ?! We've got high school cheer leads spinning around those batons that eclipse the Manchurian candidates. The Brits are in the lead for ceremonial matters. That Black Watch "dance" at the Hong Kong handover would make a fortune at Las Vegas !

......

So much going on today - and it has direct links to the Great War, both parts I and II.

Are these interesting times ?


~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[Globalization41]

Hey Bob. Thanks for postings and making things interesting. … Jim Crow and the Untouchables of 1973 can be compared, but many of those on the wrong side of Jim Crow then are now drawing retirement pay due to democratic prosperity and working-class income-tax revenue. I'm not sure what happened with the untouchables. Building prosperous democracies is not easy, but at least India appears to be working hard at it. India started out behind after WWII, but at least better off than if it hadn't been for its alliance with Britain earlier. … I heard Stalin was surprised in Teheran in 1943 when he noticed Roosevelt was not knowledgeable of India's Caste system. … Of course, F.D.R. knew about Jim Crow, but he was able to skillfully work around the problem and improve the overall general situation opportunistically as best he could.

Globalization41.

[South]

Good morning Globalization 41,

I typically introduce my views as "the minority opinion". Thus, I say "democratic prosperity" and the "working-class income-tax revenue" are really transfer payments. It's less about bona fide economic activity and more so above modern, veiled welfare.

I'll go one giant step further: "India" would not exist without the British assembly of the war lords with their fiefdoms. Think of earlier Europe.

It wasn't just India with a caste system.

Re FDR and Jim Crow: To borrow a phrase from Chou Eni Lai: "It's too early to tell".


~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[Robert Rojas]

Greetings to both brother South and the community as a whole. Howdy Bob! Well sir, after mulling over your sage commentary of Wednesday - August 01, 2018 - 10:28pm, old yours truly is REALLY beginning to wonder if the contemporary Republic of Korea is going through the initial stages of its own SINOIZATION. Very recently, the Chief Executive of the Republic of Korea announced that was his government's intention to reduce the standing size of its Army from eleven divisions to six divisions by year 2022. In light of that announcement, unless I am being unduly pessimistic of course, old Uncle Bob reads this action as little more than incremental capitulation to the latter day Emperor of the Middle Kingdom. After all, why should Beijing be content with half of a sandwich when Beijing could be content with a full sandwich? Yes, small and not so small fiefdoms will never interfere with Imperial Dragons of any stripe. Unfortunately, the Land of the Morning Calm seems destined by their geopolitical history to be either a subservient fiefdom of Beijing or a subservient fiefdom of Tokyo. Maybe Korea ought to be called the Poland of Asia. The only question remains is exactly when the government in Seoul will issue the District of Columbia its marching orders to vacate the territory of the Republic of Korea. It's just some passing food for thought. Mongolian Beef anyone? In any case, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in the Old Dominion that is the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob :roll:

[Robert Rojas]

Greetings to both brother Globalization41 and the community as a whole. Howdy G41! Well sir, in deference to your point OR points-of-view as articulated within your posting of Wednesday - August 01, 2018 - 2:55pm, old yours truly is far from certain that the Republic of Korea's military establishment would retain the wherewithal to blunt much less repel yet another concerted onslaught emanating from the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea during the decade of the 1960's. Without direct military support from the United States of America, the best that the Republic of Korea's military establishment could do is fight a series of tenacious delaying actions in the hope of taking the impetus out of the Communist thrust into South Korean territory. I terms of the decade of the 1960's, I believe that you might have overlooked Seoul's not so insignificant commitment to the VIETNAM WAR. At its height, the Republic of Korea had 300,000 military personnel on the ground in the Republic of Vietnam. This would include the CAPITOL MECHANIZED INFANTRY DIVISION (a.k.a The Tiger Division), the NINTH INFANTRY DIVISION (a.k.a. The White Horse Division) and the SECOND MARINE BRIGADE (a.k.a. The Blue Dragons). With these units engaged in combat operation within the Republic of Vietnam, the Seoul Government would have little choice but to request immediate reinforcements from the United States of America. I also suspect (rightly OR wrongly) that the District of Columbia will keep the nuclear option on the table as a last ditch contingency to stave off the potential collapse of South Korea. Now, it is your assertion that the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea ought to transform itself into a TOURIST / CAPITALIST ECONOMY. I categorically reject your assertion. It is my assertion that the WEST should do everything within their collective power to cause the Dynastic Regime in Pyongyang to implode. The Republic of Korea could then pick up the pieces and recast the former "workers paradise" in their own Capitalist image. Yes, prosperous democracy indeed! Well, that's my latest two Yankee cents worth on this expansive topic of interest - for now anyway. In any case, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in your corner of what was once our Golden State of California.

Best Regards From the Greater San Francisco Bay Area,
Uncle Bob

[South]

Good morning Uncle Bob,

Will pursue this early AM rambling of mine via the route of - trends - so as to avoid our prohibition on discussions of current (within 20 years of today) events.

The world's contemporary economic environment is large trading blocs and, by extension, large political blocs. Think of EU, NAFTA, ASIAN,SCO. Can a small sovereign nation like Timor or South Korea or Moldova or a sovereign Scotland run a country ? These places do not have the economies of scale to even finance the rudimentary infrastructure to run eg a fisheries patrol, a public health service, and et cetra.

During the Cold War, South Korea had a large army because the US allowed...with the concurrent arrangements...to develop an economy of low tech - but labor intensive - - - unemployed labor is one of the economic locations where political insurrection is bred - - - industries like low-tech shipbuilding. This shipbuilding has since migrated to the land of the Middle Kingdom. Other examples abound. A South Korea footnote: Their population is one of the lowest in the world. It's worst than Japan's. SK has a labor shortage. Are there nearby sources of the needed people ?

A full sandwich is better than a half of a sandwich - and a banquet with copious amounts of Mou Tai liquor are...well, icing on the cake.

When discussing both South and North Chozen and Dragon: think of Shanghai Cooperation Organization, Silk Road/Silk Route - with emphasis on land mass locations involving the Eurasian landmass. The maritime areas are left as leftovers.

Completely concur; South Korea is the Poland of Asia. More formally, it's the geopolitical "Shatter belts" coupled to the geo-economics; the economies of scale.

I believe the government in Seoul is already in (spelling?) Tonguesangst - death anxiety. A city named Seoul with a THAAD battery...actually it's the radar of importance...translates to its immediate end of existence under 10 seconds from when Louis Lane turns on the General Electric fan and Superman's cape starts flowing. Meanwhile, how do you say "ditto" in Chinese in re Vietnam ?

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[Globalization41]

[...old yours truly is far from certain that the Republic of Korea's military establishment would retain the wherewithal to blunt much less repel yet another concerted onslaught emanating from the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea during the decade of the 1960's. Without direct military support from the United States of America, the best that the Republic of Korea's military establishment could do is fight a series of tenacious delaying actions in the hope of taking the impetus out of the Communist thrust into South Korean territory.] I see what you're saying Uncle Bob, but what did the North have? Maybe they weren't as bad-ass as they claimed to be. At some point, I think, the South could have stopped by itself a full-scale invasion from the North. South Korea was continually improving. … [ In terms of the decade of the 1960's, I believe that you might have overlooked Seoul's not so insignificant commitment to the VIETNAM WAR. At its height, the Republic of Korea had 300,000 military personnel on the ground in the Republic of Vietnam] I heard somewhere that South Korean troops fighting in South Vietnam were elite forces to be avoided by the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army. South Korea had the draft. Everyone served. There would have been millions of men available. … Airlifting the 300,000 South Koreans from Vietnam to Korea would have been a piece of cake for the U.S. Air Force in those days. Cargo planes worked round-the clock-supporting American forces in Vietnam. U.S. forces were also needed in Europe. There were fleets of cargo planes all over Europe, the Pacific, and Asia. If a plane broke down and needed a part to fly, supply units made it the highest priority to get that part to the aircraft. No expense was spared. Capitalism created wealth, but maintaining a strong defense due to the Cold War, facilitated wealth creation. America was sending men to the moon just for the fun of it. The U.S. could easily have afforded contracting mass troop moves to civilian airliners, too. … If Nixon had ordered the U.S. out of Vietnam and Korea, South Vietnam would have collapsed, but South Korea could have defended against a full-scale North Korean invasion. And in a few days, South Korea would have been getting its elite troops from Vietnam via U.S. Military Airlift Command. … [Now, it is your assertion that the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea ought to transform itself into a TOURIST / CAPITALIST ECONOMY. I categorically reject your assertion. It is my assertion that the WEST should do everything within their collective power to cause the Dynastic Regime in Pyongyang to implode. The Republic of Korea could then pick up the pieces and recast the former "workers paradise" in their own Capitalist image. Yes, prosperous democracy indeed!] Yes, it might take a few centuries for my "assertion" to come true. Regime change might be better for future generations. … The King of Thailand had total power and he used it for good. … North Korea is hemmed in if it wants to practice aggression. It should defect to the U.S. side. It would be much better than trying to con everyone into believing the myth of Yankee imperialism. North Korea as it is now would be difficult logistically to maintain over the decades. … [A South Korea footnote: Their population is one of the lowest in the world. It's worst than Japan's. SK has a labor shortage. Are there nearby sources of the needed people ?] Good point Bob.

Globalization41.