On origins,development of Cold War

[South]

http://www.eurasiareview.com/03102018-w ... -analysis/


Good morning all,

Link is to a long essay discussing the origins, development and end of the Cold War.

I was not aware that "...USA and the West pursued the application of human rights values and freedom of speech whereas it was restricted ..." Was not Saudi Arabia in the Western camp ? I'll ask Syngman Rhee to clarify.

It's a decent student essay although neglected is the economic aid competition eg Aswan High Dam and the "show case" economic diplomacy eg Soviet supersonic transport crashed on takeoff at Le Bourget Air Show 1973.

The end of essay, prior to CONCLUSION, is about current events. Please disregard/do not comment on the current events.

Note that the essay's student author writes from Bishkek. The city's former name was Frunz, named after the Russian general who established the place.


~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[Sheldrake]

Here are my personal observation.

In November 1988 I was an escort to the observer party on Ex Iron Triangle(?) a British Formation Training Exercise.(FTX) That was the time when as part of the CSCE agreement about confidence building measures, the Warsaw Pact (and neutrals) sent observers to our FTXs and NATO and the Neutrals to theirs. This was a bit of a circus with about sixty observers and a similar number of escorts staying in a five star hotel and bused to the manouvres. A sort of military convention with a bot of spying. The serious players, (USA USSR, DDR etc) scuttled back to their rooms to write up their notes, while the neutrals and their escorts hit the bar. (I was looking after Austrians and a colleague the Irish.)

Every day we drove to the manouvre area in the area south of Hannover, through prosperous villages and towns. Although the rhetoric from the WP observers was in the language of the cold war, you could see from their faces that they had lost. A Hungarian spy (A full colonel who had served inn the London embassy) implied German farmers were peasants - but they were driving Mercedes cars. As we passed car showrooms (Audi, Porsche BMW Mercedes) the eyes of a young East German Colonel were on stalks: like a teen-aged boy in Amsterdam's red light district...

At the end of WW2 there was a reasonable proposition that socialist command economies could deliver equality and prosperity. In order to win the war the western allies had become to an extent centrally directed command economies with restrictions on individual freedom. Britain to a greater extent than the USA. By 1990 it was obvious that capitalism practised by the western democracies had won.

There were two cold wars. One with The USSR and the second with Red China. The USSR liberalized its politics, but left its economy in anarchy. The Chinese liberalised their economy without embracing democracy.

[South]

Good afternoon Sheldrake,

Very interesting.

Ref the German farmers/peasant variety driving Mercedes...most of the world now understands that the Marxist model of economic arrangements just doesn't deliver.

"Most" excludes the Harvard University faculty, the University of California at Berkeley faculty,...... You know the rest and the British entries to this list.


~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[wm]

Although there weren't any peasants in the GDR, they all "enthusiastically" joined kolhozes and (quite rare) sovkhozes.

Peasants driving Mercedeses were a thing in Poland, where 76 percent of agricultural land was privately owned by peasants/farmers.
Because of the chronic shortages of everything people who produced anything useful were able to become millionaires almost overnight, hence those Mercedeses.

[Robert Rojas]

Greetings to both citizen 'wm' and the community as a whole. Howdy 'wm'! Well sir. in light of your posting of Wednesday - October 03, 2018 - 3:12pm, old yours truly is a bit confused with your commentary concerning the nation of Poland. Is your description of the rural countryside from that of the old Communist era or is it a description of the rural countryside from today's Social Democratic era? Until I reviewed your posting, I was NOT at all aware that the folks out in the countryside had that much financial wherewithal and clout. Incidentally, given your notation about East German collective agricultural institutions, I was also personally curios if you had spent a fair amount of time in the Socialist Fatherland once known as the German Democratic Republic? Thank you for your clarification on these matters. Well, that is my initial two Yankee cents worth on this sojourn down "Workers Paradise" lane - for now anyway. As always, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in the ever enduring land of Poland.


Best Regards,
Uncle Bob

[Robert Rojas]

Greetings to both brother South and the community as a whole. Howdy Bob! Well sir, in respect to your introductory posting of Tuesday - October 02, 2018 - 11:17pm, as with other articles of this historical genre, old yours truly must take a dissenting opinion from that of Cholpon Kainazarova. Just to reiterate, it is and remains my contention that the genesis of the COLD WAR was spawned in the turmoil of the Russian Civil War from year 1917 through year 1922. The ostensibly anti-communist Anglo-American intervention of year 1918 was certainly the watershed event that earned the lasting enmity of the fledgling Soviet Regime. Until the events of June 22, 1941, the United States of America would be seen as the principal ideological opponent of the Soviet Union and not that of National Socialist Germany. I will forego venturing into a rehash of the myriad of historical events that transpired between May 08, 1945 and December 26, 1991. In terms of the dissolution of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, old Uncle Bob is often reminded of the political adage of "GOVERNMENTS DO NOT COLLAPSE - THEY COMMIT SUICIDE". In short, given the plethora of economic and social challenges that it faced, the Soviet Union did NOT necessarily have to collapse. It simply chose to do so. With that said, the WEST has simply traded the COLD WAR of the now defunct Soviet Union for the COLD PEACE of the contemporary Russian Federation. I often wonder what Alexander Kerensky and Andrei Amalrik would have thought about all of this. Well, that is my latest two Yankee cents worth on this exercise into the junk heap of history - for now anyway. As always, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in your corner of the Old Dominion that is the Commonwealth of Virginia.

Best Regards
Uncle Bob

[South]

Good morning Uncle Bob,

You've got my agreement on the genesis ... although ...

I did write here at AHF that the new, even more improved Soviet Union - the Russian Federation - ditched their Czar-inherited buffer states to try the real estate route to success and prosperity. Unfortunately, like the Tango dance, it takes more than one item to work.

With the Middle Kingdom merchants and governmental emissaries all over the former Soviet lands (long term agricultural leaseholds in Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan [Rent to buy]) ... the Maritime Oblasts are a new Chinese restaurant chain (Budda Delight healthy meal but careful in re Lobster Cantonese) and these same business folks already working the Athens, Greece maritime markets..............

The Cold War, the Cold Peace and the regular wars all have at least one common denominator: properly addressing the change from agricultural societies to industrialization along with the support systems eg the banking and finance companies. It's a balancing act.

Was told that Kerensky's grandson died as recently as the early 1970s in Toronto, Canada.

In lieu of Euros or RMBs, those 2 gold ingots used as cuff-links will better assist on our journey to get outside the burst radius of an ICBM. Forget the fallout: the rising oceans will get us first.


~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[wm]

Dear Uncle,

76 percent of agricultural land was privately owned during the communist era. It was less as long as Stalin was alive but the moment he died it reverted immediately to 76 percent again.
Poland was much different from the other communist countries, lots of privately owned small businesses existed there, large private businesses existed too (but all were owned by Polish emigrants), in the seventies/eighties about a million Poles per year were able to travel to the Western countries. All that because the communist rulers were afraid of their people.
Poland was the merriest barrack in the communist camp and the most free. The Russians weren't allowed to see such things even on TV.
Stalin said fitting communism onto Poland is like putting a saddle on a cow, and he was right.

As to the " the lasting enmity of the fledgling Soviet Regime," it should be noted the Soviets hated everyone, it was in their ideology actually that capitalist countries were all enemies.
Not because they were but because objective historic laws forced them to be enemies of communism, similarly like objective laws of biology force the lions to be predators.

Still, they chose the Americans to modernize their agriculture and automotive industry in the thirties - and the Americans did it, starting with the Fordson.

[Robert Rojas]

Greetings to both citizen 'wm' and the community as a whole. Howdy 'wm'! Well sir, in respect to your posting of Monday - October 15, 2018 - 11:07am, old yours truly is appreciative of your clarification regarding the life and times of Poland's rural folk during the days of Marxist-Leninist governance. In light of your telling commentary, would it be a philosophical stretch to suggest that Poland adopted the TITOIST model of Socialism after disassociating itself from the STALINIST model of Socialism? From what you have described, life in Poland "seemed" to mirror life in what was then the Yugoslav Federation. Would it also be a stretch to suggest that the Roman Catholic Church also significantly impacted the day-to-day lives and affairs of Poland's rank and file citizenry? Until the advent and rise of the Solidarity Labor Movement, was it not the Roman Catholic Church that acted as a counter-weight to the Polish Communist Party? I would have loved being a fly on the wall in Warsaw's chambers of government when Karol Wojtyla was elected as the Pope on October 16, 1978! Incidentally, was it not General Secretary Stalin in the neighboring Soviet Union that once rhetorically mused: HOW MANY DIVISIONS DOES THE POPE HAVE!? To this day, I am more than a bit surprised that Leonid Brezhnev did not succumb to a fatal heart attack upon hearing the news of Karol Wojtyla's ascendancy to the Papal Throne! ? After that epic event, I could easily see why you would characterize Poland as the "MERRIEST BARRACK IN THE COMMUNIST CAMP". Finally, no one was more surprised than old yours truly when Leonid Brezhnev refrained from "intervening" in Poland's internal affairs during the turbulent time frame of 1980 and 1981. Unlike Hungary in year 1956 and Czechoslovakia in year 1968, there was a school of thought that the Soviet Union opted not to intervene in Poland's internal affairs out of fear that such an act might escalate into a full blown shooting war. After all, Poland did retain THE largest and THE Best equipped military establishment within the ironically named Warsaw Pact military alliance. Would such an escalation morph into a wholesale armed revolt in the Eastern Block? Fortunately, I'm glad that NONE OF US ever had to find out! Well, that is my latest two cents or kopecks worth on this exercise into the junk heap of history - for now anyway. As always, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in the ever enduring land of Poland.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob

[wm]

I suppose Titoism was a conscious ideological choice of Tito. In Poland, it was rather a haphazard development - the communists were too weak and too inept to introduce more communism so they were forced to accept what was possible.

The Roman Catholic Church was important but it itself was enabled by the conservative populace and especially the proverbially obtuse peasants. In Poland even many top communist leaders baptized (in secret) their children - the social pressure was so great.

According to a man who was there Polish communist leaders were generally proud that Wojtyla was elected as the Pope (except some hopeless cases) and this included the First Secretary of the Party.
The election wasn't seen as a pressing problem because the Polish economy started to circle the drain at that time, protests and strikes began, and it was obvious (to some) the end was near. Actually probably it gave the communists some respite because diverted attention from economic problems.

The Soviets were stretched very thin at that time because driven by paranoia they kept many of their divisions at the Soviet-Chinese border and because of the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan. They weren't especially capable of another intervention.

[Robert Rojas]

Greetings to both citizen 'wm' and the community as a whole. Howdy 'wm'! Well sir, in respect to your posting of Wednesday - October 17, 2018 - 3:55pm, once again, old yours truly is quite appreciative for your unique perspective of life and society under the tenuous governance of the Polish Communist Party. I nearly fell out my chair laughing when you described members of the Polish Communist Party clandestinely involved with Roman Catholic baptisms. So much for the Marxist dictum that "RELIGION IS THE OPIATE OF THE MASSES". I was also amazed that the preponderance of Poland's Communist Party's bureaucrats were positive and receptive to the radical idea of a Pope of Polish ethnic ancestry. I guess it would be akin to a HOME BOY DOES GOOD. It's little wonder that Poland's rural folk are so conservatively loyal to the Vatican and obtuse to the secular humanist aims of Warsaw's apparatchiks. As you say, the Polish Communist Party was ultimately compelled to accept what was possible. In short, if the people so chose to lead, then the leaders will inevitably follow! Oh, and by the way, my views are hardly unbiased when it came to the activities of the Roman Catholic Church in Poland - old Uncle Bob is also a practicing adherent of the Roman Catholic Faith. Now you know. And yes, I also vividly recall both the economic and labor turbulence that racked Poland especially in the years 1980 and 1981. It often seemed that Lech Walesa of the Solidarity Labor Movement was front and center on American television screens during that monumental time period. Incidentally, in light of Moscow's apparent acquiescence with the state of domestic affairs in ever rambunctious Poland, was it assumed that the General Wojciech Jaruzelski of the Polish Army would maintain Moscow's ideological status quo? Just curious! Well, that is my latest two cents or kopecks worth on this continuing exercise into the junk heap of history - for now anyway. As always, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in your corner of the ever enduring land of Poland.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob

[wm]

Wałesa was a real hero, imperfect but still. The workers admired and followed only him, not the intellectuals. And the communists only feared the idealized and cherished by them workers, the others weren't a problem as long as the workers weren't "restless."
And this included the Church. The Church was an ideological problem but it wasn't going to go on strike, riot or build barricades.
The Church would be a huge obstacle on the road to the true, hardcore communism, but wasn't a threat ("my kingdom is not of this world.") to a watered communism which merely tried to plod along.

Jaruzelski was a true believer he would tow the line to the end, and he did that till the line itself disintegrated. Not a very bright person but hard-working, unfortunately.
I worked with a man who was a duty officer at some secret military installation in the sixties and encountered a much younger Jaruzelski unofficially inspecting the base - which was highly irregular. He always said he regretted he didn't shot him to death like the dog he was, and he had every right to do that. Of course, as it usually happens he exaggerated a little.

Incidentally, Jaruzelski's child was baptized too - in secret by his mother.
Communists believed in the opiate thing, or at least accepted it but it was much different at home where they had to face the entire family, especially the older members. So it was easier to baptize and be done with it. Most of them were careerists anyway.

[Robert Rojas]

Greetings to both citizen 'wm' and the community as a whole. Howdy 'wm'! Well sir, in respect to your posting of Monday - October 22, 2018 - 12:59pm, once again, old yours truly would like to convey my appreciation for your wonderfully candid insights on the colorful trials and tribulations of Poland during the tenuous reign of the Polish Communist Party. If it were not for the seriousness of their policies and actions, the day-to-day role of the Polish Communist Party could ALMOST be seen as comedic. However, as with other like minded totalitarian regimes, I rather suspect that your STATE SECURITY APPARATUS was NOT exactly known for its jovial humor. Now, just to sate my not so subtle curiosity, in terms of the military installation in question, did your former protégé ever confide in you about the clandestine nature of his installation's technical purpose and mission? Given that the younger Wojciech Jaruzelski's was brazenly engaged in the act of irregular snooping around a clearly designated OFF LIMITS facility, might it be safely assumed that the younger Wojciech Jaruzelski might have been attached to the Main Political Directorate of the Poland's Military Establishment? From what I generally understand about such matters, the ROLE and ACTIVITY of a POLITICAL OFFICER were not held in great esteem by the remainder of ANY of the Warsaw Pact's military establishments. Given the reaction of your former protégé, it is NOT all that surprising that he OR she might have had a primordial inclination to blow the younger Wojciech Jaruzelski's head off. Under the given circumstances, apart from potentially handing the younger Wojciech Jaruzelski over to the Military Police, it is just as well that your protégé let sleeping dogs lie on this sordid matter. Unofficial inspections indeed! With that said, old Uncle Bob must duly concede that there is NEVER a dull reading moment in any of your topical contributions. Keep up the good work! Well, that is my latest two cents or kopecks worth on this continuing exercise into the junk heap of history - for now anyway. As always, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in the ever enduring land of Poland.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi wm,

I seem to recall that only 1% of agricultural land was privately owned "kitchen gardens" but it produced about a third of the USSR's food.

Cheers,

Sid.

[wm]

Dear Uncle,

In a communist country all military installations were paranoidly and pointlessly shrouded in secrecy so it wasn't a Polish area 51 certainly.
He was a naval officer, later commanded a flotilla of torpedo boats (presumably former Nazi boats and not especially useful for anything) so it was a navy installation.
At that time Jaruzelski was a local garrison commander so it was his job to snoop around for (actually real and numerous) irregularities but not like that - without warning the duty officer first. Later they purged him from the army for sins of his father, they learned his father was a pre-war right-wing activist.
I suppose he didn't especially hate Jaruzelski at that time but changed his mind after the purge.

The security apparatus wasn't visible, pre-1980 most people weren't aware they even existed. Generally, it wasn't that bad with freedom of expression. From the end of the seventies, even the police wasn't safe from ridicule and comedies were able to present them as mindless idiots. Only the party and the Soviets were protected the others, especially bureaucracy were fair play.
The everyday life was quite comedic mostly because of the visible absurdity of the system, and actually the best Polish comedies were filmed in the seventies and in the eighties. Especially Teddy Bear (1980) was absolutely brutal.