https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-14055583
Good afternoon all,
Per ...
Link has formal legislative draft document mentioning "UK Strategic Nuclear Deter rant".
Article leads off with 2 good pictures. The second one, in color, has a blazer sport coat with patch "British Nuclear Test Veterans Association".
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
I suppose its better than banging on about Brexit...South wrote: ↑26 Feb 2019, 20:54https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-14055583
Good afternoon all,
Per ...
Link has formal legislative draft document mentioning "UK Strategic Nuclear Deter rant".
Article leads off with 2 good pictures. The second one, in color, has a blazer sport coat with patch "British Nuclear Test Veterans Association".
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
The father of one of my old Commanding Officers, Peter Lowe led the veterans campaign for some time. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7hg ... we&f=falseHe died of cancer some years ago.
A medal is of less practical use than high quality medical care and compensation.
Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
Good afternoon Sheldrake,
Appreciate contribution to thread.
Wouldn't even consider addressing that post-Hanseatic League matter.
I did, indeed, think of the medical component. We went through this already on this side of pond.
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
Appreciate contribution to thread.
Wouldn't even consider addressing that post-Hanseatic League matter.
I did, indeed, think of the medical component. We went through this already on this side of pond.
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
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Robert Rojas
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RE: Proposed British Cold War Atomic Medal.
Greetings to both citizen Sheldrake and the community as a whole. Howdy Sheldrake! Well sir, in reference to your posting of Tuesday - February 26, 2019 - 11:33am, old yours truly was curios how her Majesty's Government has addressed the issue of potential OR actual battlefield exposure to the by products of spent DEPLETED URANIUM ammunition during the course of the United Kingdom's military involvement in Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan. Ever since the conclusion of the GULF WAR in year 1991, there has been a myriad of occurring maladies among American Gulf War veterans now commonly referred to as GULF WAR SYNDROME. There is an ongoing healthcare debate here in the United States of America of what this syndrome is or is not, but exposure to the by products of spent DEPLETED URANIUM ammunition has never been conclusively ruled out as a contributing factor with this malady. Maybe this is an opportunity for Great Britain to propose a HOT WAR ATOMIC MEDAL. it's just some friendly food for thought. Meals Ready to Eat anyone? Well, that's my two initial Yankee cents worth on this potentially contentious topic of interest - for now anyway. As always, I would like to bid you an especially copacetic day over in your corner of merry old England. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN - not to mention everyone else!
Best Regards From The Upstart Colonies!
Uncle Bob
Best Regards From The Upstart Colonies!
Uncle Bob
"It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it" - Robert E. Lee
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Sid Guttridge
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Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
Ridiculous proposition.
Given their losses, Bomber Command certainly merited a campaign medal, but the UK is not (yet!) a banana republic, Idi Amin's Uganda, or Bokassa' Central African Empire that it needs to devalue its honours system by dishing out gongs for everybody in uniform who inadvertently found themselves in the way of possible danger.
My mother was bombed for two years on Malta going to and coming from work in the naval cipher office but got nothing because she was a civilian. Her complaint was not that she deserved a medal for the risks she took in 1941-42, but that WRENS, who returned after the bombing in 1943-45, got a Mediterranean Theatre medal simply because they were in uniform, even though they had arrived after the risks had passed.
The circumstance of the Atomic test veterans is more akin to my mother's father's situation. He fell off the back of a truck in Italy in 1944 and did himself a permanent injury. It happened while in service of his country, in uniform, in war, but it certainly didn't merit a special Transport-related Injury Medal. He got what he deserved - a small war injury pension.
The way to recognize the Atomic test veterans, (presuming, of course, that any injuries they later contracted are directly related), is to give them a medical pension and the best medical treatment available.
Cheers,
Sid.
Given their losses, Bomber Command certainly merited a campaign medal, but the UK is not (yet!) a banana republic, Idi Amin's Uganda, or Bokassa' Central African Empire that it needs to devalue its honours system by dishing out gongs for everybody in uniform who inadvertently found themselves in the way of possible danger.
My mother was bombed for two years on Malta going to and coming from work in the naval cipher office but got nothing because she was a civilian. Her complaint was not that she deserved a medal for the risks she took in 1941-42, but that WRENS, who returned after the bombing in 1943-45, got a Mediterranean Theatre medal simply because they were in uniform, even though they had arrived after the risks had passed.
The circumstance of the Atomic test veterans is more akin to my mother's father's situation. He fell off the back of a truck in Italy in 1944 and did himself a permanent injury. It happened while in service of his country, in uniform, in war, but it certainly didn't merit a special Transport-related Injury Medal. He got what he deserved - a small war injury pension.
The way to recognize the Atomic test veterans, (presuming, of course, that any injuries they later contracted are directly related), is to give them a medical pension and the best medical treatment available.
Cheers,
Sid.
Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
Good morning Sid,
Appreciate contribution.
I am not sure if "Ridiculous proposition" relates to Uncle Bob's above post or to your concluding paragraph mentioning "medical pension and the best medical treatment available". Perhaps the escape word is "available". Here, too, in the upstart colonies, this was addressed some time ago.
......
Bokassa did NOT devalue any honours [sic] system. The gongs he gave to a French chief of state - includes commander of their military - were nice and valuable and could summon many more than a regular gong found in any Asian temple.
......
"directly related"; ... This, too, already worked up on Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C., eons ago. Agent Orange is an example when the infirmity; the cancers, are not directly related. What is the best advice to those not directly handling the chemical? ... Don't go on patrol until after the aircraft spraying that stuff leaves the area ... ? ... ! ... ?
Plus, much of the atomic testing research and development matters were secret.
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
State song is not "Diamonds are a girl's best friend".
Appreciate contribution.
I am not sure if "Ridiculous proposition" relates to Uncle Bob's above post or to your concluding paragraph mentioning "medical pension and the best medical treatment available". Perhaps the escape word is "available". Here, too, in the upstart colonies, this was addressed some time ago.
......
Bokassa did NOT devalue any honours [sic] system. The gongs he gave to a French chief of state - includes commander of their military - were nice and valuable and could summon many more than a regular gong found in any Asian temple.
......
"directly related"; ... This, too, already worked up on Capitol Hill, Washington, D.C., eons ago. Agent Orange is an example when the infirmity; the cancers, are not directly related. What is the best advice to those not directly handling the chemical? ... Don't go on patrol until after the aircraft spraying that stuff leaves the area ... ? ... ! ... ?
Plus, much of the atomic testing research and development matters were secret.
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
State song is not "Diamonds are a girl's best friend".
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Sid Guttridge
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Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
Hi South,
"Ridiculous proposition" refers to the thread title: "Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal". It is not addressed to anyone in particular.
As for Bokassa not devaluing any honours system: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Bokas ... 80&bih=946
The UK has lost about 20,000 dead in uniform since WWII, only about a quarter of them as a result of combat. In addition to this proposed "British Cold War Atomic medal" are we therefore also to give the MAFD (Motor Accident Fatality Decoration), the NDA (Negligent Discharge Award), CDS (Communicable Diseases Star), SISC (Suicide in Service Commendation), etc., etc.? Like those claimed to have died as a consequence of the atom bomb tests, servicemen died of all these things and most would probably not have done so had they not been in uniform. Are they to have medals as well?
Cheers,
Sid.
"Ridiculous proposition" refers to the thread title: "Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal". It is not addressed to anyone in particular.
As for Bokassa not devaluing any honours system: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Bokas ... 80&bih=946
The UK has lost about 20,000 dead in uniform since WWII, only about a quarter of them as a result of combat. In addition to this proposed "British Cold War Atomic medal" are we therefore also to give the MAFD (Motor Accident Fatality Decoration), the NDA (Negligent Discharge Award), CDS (Communicable Diseases Star), SISC (Suicide in Service Commendation), etc., etc.? Like those claimed to have died as a consequence of the atom bomb tests, servicemen died of all these things and most would probably not have done so had they not been in uniform. Are they to have medals as well?
Cheers,
Sid.
Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
Good afternoon Sid,
Don't want to delve into the Bokassa matter as of now.
I know too little of the UK and any transition to a banana republic status. I do know art critic Anthony Blunt was knighted with the "Sir" title - since relinquished.
The posed issue is probably not solvable. It's about the same here in the States.
Sidebar; Wasn't Idi Amin in the British Army as a cook ? Post WWI, he got his "jump wings" - parachutist training - in Israel.
This thread is perhaps the first for me when I correctly guessed the British English term "gong" also refers to medals !
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
Don't want to delve into the Bokassa matter as of now.
I know too little of the UK and any transition to a banana republic status. I do know art critic Anthony Blunt was knighted with the "Sir" title - since relinquished.
The posed issue is probably not solvable. It's about the same here in the States.
Sidebar; Wasn't Idi Amin in the British Army as a cook ? Post WWI, he got his "jump wings" - parachutist training - in Israel.
This thread is perhaps the first for me when I correctly guessed the British English term "gong" also refers to medals !
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
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Sid Guttridge
- Member
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Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
Hi South,
My father, who was a captain in the 5th Battalion, King's African Rifles (KAR), was an instructor on Idi Amin's officer course.
Amin was a good sergeant (not a cook) in the Uganda battalion of the KAR, in which there were no African officers under British rule. Independence came much faster than the British expected, so they had to rush the better African NCOs through an officer's course to take over the newly formed Uganda, Kenyan and Tanganyikan armies. Contrary to what you might read about Amin attending Sandhurst, the course actually took place in East Africa.
(I think it unlikely that he ever went on an Israeli paratroop course, as he was a Muslim who found sanctuary in Saudi Arabia when overthrown. However, he did pay unwitting host to some Israeli paratroops on the occasion of the Entebbe raid).
Cheers,
Sid.
My father, who was a captain in the 5th Battalion, King's African Rifles (KAR), was an instructor on Idi Amin's officer course.
Amin was a good sergeant (not a cook) in the Uganda battalion of the KAR, in which there were no African officers under British rule. Independence came much faster than the British expected, so they had to rush the better African NCOs through an officer's course to take over the newly formed Uganda, Kenyan and Tanganyikan armies. Contrary to what you might read about Amin attending Sandhurst, the course actually took place in East Africa.
(I think it unlikely that he ever went on an Israeli paratroop course, as he was a Muslim who found sanctuary in Saudi Arabia when overthrown. However, he did pay unwitting host to some Israeli paratroops on the occasion of the Entebbe raid).
Cheers,
Sid.
Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... connection
Good afternoon Sid,
Real interesting information....
The collection of sub-Sahara chiefs of state do qualify for listing on the charts along with the banana republic dictators.
Someone had told me of Dada CBE going to jump school in Israel. Above link mentions he enrolled but did not complete the course.
Regardless of his Islamic faith - and the intensity of his practice of it - he still could enter countries like Israel, if the requirement was mutual. Typically, he'd be "processed" such as via Aqaba or Amman, Jordan and then driven across border.
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
Good afternoon Sid,
Real interesting information....
The collection of sub-Sahara chiefs of state do qualify for listing on the charts along with the banana republic dictators.
Someone had told me of Dada CBE going to jump school in Israel. Above link mentions he enrolled but did not complete the course.
Regardless of his Islamic faith - and the intensity of his practice of it - he still could enter countries like Israel, if the requirement was mutual. Typically, he'd be "processed" such as via Aqaba or Amman, Jordan and then driven across border.
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
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Sid Guttridge
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Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
Hi South,
Uncompleted, unstarted, or fictitious?
Cheers,
Sid
Uncompleted, unstarted, or fictitious?
Cheers,
Sid
Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/ ... ought.html
Good afternoon Sid,
In reply: Lost to history - or perhaps lost from history.
Someone just send me above British link with last entry telling of DADA CBE wearing black silk pajamas. Perhaps not a bona fide jumper but rather a teenage Ninja turtle or a Viet Cong.
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
Good afternoon Sid,
In reply: Lost to history - or perhaps lost from history.
Someone just send me above British link with last entry telling of DADA CBE wearing black silk pajamas. Perhaps not a bona fide jumper but rather a teenage Ninja turtle or a Viet Cong.
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
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Sid Guttridge
- Member
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- Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 12:19
Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
Hi South,
Even though the Daily Mail is notoriously unreliable, I will provisionally accept the Amin/Israel connection.
Cheers,
Sid.
Even though the Daily Mail is notoriously unreliable, I will provisionally accept the Amin/Israel connection.
Cheers,
Sid.
Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
Good morning Sid,
From what I understand about British society (not much at all), the Daily Mail, the Guardian and the Daily Telegraph, have near-identical components:
They make money (try to) from readers and advertisers by publishing articles to further their readerships and advertising accounts.
Provisionally ? the connection ? Didn't the Israelis build Entebee Airport ?!
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
Foot Note: Was told when in junior high school, a 1930s edition of London's THE TIMES had a headline: "Heavy Fog In Channel; Continent Cut Off"
Love it !
From what I understand about British society (not much at all), the Daily Mail, the Guardian and the Daily Telegraph, have near-identical components:
They make money (try to) from readers and advertisers by publishing articles to further their readerships and advertising accounts.
Provisionally ? the connection ? Didn't the Israelis build Entebee Airport ?!
~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
Foot Note: Was told when in junior high school, a 1930s edition of London's THE TIMES had a headline: "Heavy Fog In Channel; Continent Cut Off"
Love it !
-
Sid Guttridge
- Member
- Posts: 10162
- Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 12:19
Re: Proposed British Cold War Atomic medal
Hi South,
Certainly, "the Daily Mail, the Guardian and the Daily Telegraph"...."make money (try to) from readers and advertisers by publishing articles to further their readerships and advertising accounts." This is not blameworthy.
However, they have (1) different ideological standpoints (the Guardian being leftist and the other two rightist) and (2) different standards of evidence (The Daily Mail being prone to any conspiracy theory going - crop circles, et al.)
If one wants a reasonable coverage of the UK and its world view, one needs to read both Guardian and Daily Telegraph. Probably to my shame, I never read the Guardian.
Cheers,
Sid.
Certainly, "the Daily Mail, the Guardian and the Daily Telegraph"...."make money (try to) from readers and advertisers by publishing articles to further their readerships and advertising accounts." This is not blameworthy.
However, they have (1) different ideological standpoints (the Guardian being leftist and the other two rightist) and (2) different standards of evidence (The Daily Mail being prone to any conspiracy theory going - crop circles, et al.)
If one wants a reasonable coverage of the UK and its world view, one needs to read both Guardian and Daily Telegraph. Probably to my shame, I never read the Guardian.
Cheers,
Sid.