USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

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wm
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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by wm » 18 Sep 2019 08:12

Bullitt was fired by whom?
Maybe by Roosevelt, the man he regularly corresponded with in a personal tone almost till his death. And was continually encouraged to do so by the President.

Bullit negotiated American recognition of the Soviet Union. He was the first US ambassador there.
Hew was reassigned to France for obvious reasons.
And was "fired" because France ceased to exist.

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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by ljadw » 18 Sep 2019 10:10

Bullitt was fired as ambassador in Russia by FDR after a big scandal. He was not fired as ambassador in Paris because France ceased to exist ( it did not ) ,he was replaced by admiral Leahy .
It is also not so that he continued to correspond with FDR til 1945 . Relations between both became very hostile in 1943,due to Bullit's attempt to eliminate Welles who was implicated in a homosexual scandal . FDR advised Bullit to go for mayor of Philadelphia in 1943,but at the same time,FDR told the democrats of Philadelphia : cut his throat.
And, he did not negotiate American recognition of the SU ,because it was not his job and because the recognition was not negotiated .

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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by ljadw » 18 Sep 2019 10:14

wm wrote:
18 Sep 2019 07:39
The advance of industry, whose involuntary promoter is the bourgeoisie, replaces the isolation of the labourers, due to competition, by the revolutionary combination, due to association.
The development of Modern Industry, therefore, cuts from under its feet the very foundation on which the bourgeoisie produces and appropriates products.
What the bourgeoisie therefore produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable.
Manifesto of the Communist Party [1848]
Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you!
Nikita Khrushchev [1956]
Meaningless rhetoric that was believed by no one .
And it was the same Nikita K and also his successors who were forced to buy grain from the capitalist states.

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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by OpanaPointer » 18 Sep 2019 11:38

Better translation was "we will leave you in our dust."
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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by wm » 18 Sep 2019 13:41

Unfortunately, it isn't.
It's was a direct reference to "the bourgeoisie ... produces ... its own grave-diggers."

The communists knew such phrases by heart, it was like "let there be light: and there was light" for them.

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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by wm » 18 Sep 2019 13:45

ljadw wrote:
18 Sep 2019 10:14
Meaningless rhetoric that was believed by no one.
Not true. Communists, communists leaders; Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev were true believers. They were doing it for idealistic reasons, even if some of them bent the rules for personal gain.

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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by wm » 18 Sep 2019 13:54

ljadw wrote:
18 Sep 2019 10:10
And, he did not negotiate American recognition of the SU ,because it was not his job and because the recognition was not negotiated .
So this was handed down from above on a silver plate I presume:
pledge.png
The New York Times [ November 16, 1933]
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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by ljadw » 18 Sep 2019 14:33

1 Pledges by the Soviets are not proofs of negotiations .
2 Debts were left to be trashed out later ,and I would be surprised if there was later an agreement on debts .
3 The question is : WHO wanted the recognition : the US or the USSR ? Who was the requesting party ? What was the benefit for the Soviets if they were recognized by the US ? The USSR was already recognized by France, and France did not demand that the Soviets would pay back the billions France had lent to the Tsar . What happened in 1933 was that the US finally accepted reality,which was that the communists were de facto,and thus de jure, ruling the USSR .

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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by ljadw » 18 Sep 2019 14:47

Ford was already doing business with the Soviets during the twenties and in 1930 US exported to the SU for more than $ 100 million . For the Soviets recognition by the US would change nothing .

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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by wm » 18 Sep 2019 15:57

recognition talks.jpg
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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by ljadw » 18 Sep 2019 17:01

You know who was Duranty ?

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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by wm » 18 Sep 2019 17:13

A man who was there, and a Pulitzer prize winner.

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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by ljadw » 18 Sep 2019 20:41

A liar who concealed to his readers what happened in the SU .He denied the existence of the great famine, he defended the Show Trials.
Malcolm Muggeridge ,a liberal who was the correspondent of the Guardian in Moscow ,said that Duranty was the greatest liar he knew.
Joe Alsop said that lying was Duranty's stock in trade .

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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by OpanaPointer » 19 Sep 2019 15:37

Johnny One Book, always entertaining.
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Re: USA liberal governaments of Roosevelt and Truman mismanaged USA policy toward communism

Post by wm » 19 Sep 2019 20:17

ljadw wrote:
18 Sep 2019 20:41
A liar who concealed to his readers what happened in the SU .He denied the existence of the great famine, he defended the Show Trials.
Malcolm Muggeridge ,a liberal who was the correspondent of the Guardian in Moscow ,said that Duranty was the greatest liar he knew.
Joe Alsop said that lying was Duranty's stock in trade .
Still, the article is accurate and without meaningful factual errors.

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