German settlement in Russia / USSR

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DavidFrankenberg
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German settlement in Russia / USSR

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 01 Dec 2019 00:29

Hi,

I have read this viewtopic.php?f=79&t=123608&p=1132064

And i wonder how these 1.6 millions of Germans came there.

Catherine II called them in the XVIIth century and they kept on coming during the XIXth century.

But did any come before ?
We know the VIIIth century german expansion to the East. But AFAIK they stopped in the baltic states and Poland.

Did any german colonize the volga or russian land before Catherine II called them ?

Futurist
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Re: German settlement in Russia / USSR

Post by Futurist » 01 Dec 2019 01:48

According to the information here, 18,000 of Moscow's 200,000 people (or 9% of Moscow's total population) in 1682 was made up of either Germans or other Westerners:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... _Caucasus)

Art
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Re: German settlement in Russia / USSR

Post by Art » 01 Dec 2019 07:53

Baltic provinces (Estland and Livonia) had a proportion of German nobility. Which was incorporated into a Russian noble class after they were conquered by Peter I.

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: German settlement in Russia / USSR

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 01 Dec 2019 12:27

Yes, but what abour "true" Russia ? the country ?
No settlements before Catherine II ?

Ken S.
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Re: German settlement in Russia / USSR

Post by Ken S. » 01 Dec 2019 14:39

Russians and Germans had been politically, culturally and economically connected for a long time. The first frequent and permanent relations with Nowgorod were initiated by early Hanseatic merchants in the 12th century. Since the Middle Ages until the 16th century Germans came to Rus (the original region of Russia) and many of them stayed. Starting in the 16th century many Germans moved to Moscow and in the 18th century even further to the rising city of St. Petersburg. Due to the invitation of Katharina II in 1763 thousands of Germans settled in the vastness of Russia.

...

Beginning in the 15th Century, German experts such as doctors, teachers and arms manufacturers came to Russia.
https://www.russlanddeutsche.de/en/russ ... rmans.html

Art
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Re: German settlement in Russia / USSR

Post by Art » 01 Dec 2019 20:50

There was a number of foreign expats residing mostly in Moscow and Petersburg.

Futurist
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Re: German settlement in Russia / USSR

Post by Futurist » 02 Jan 2020 23:04

DavidFrankenberg wrote:
01 Dec 2019 12:27
Yes, but what abour "true" Russia ? the country ?
No settlements before Catherine II ?
Based on this map, I don't see any German communities in Russia that were created before the 1700s:

Image

Maybe Moscow and/or St. Petersburg were exceptions to this rule (as someone mentioned above here), but otherwise, I support that the interior of Russia had very few Germans before the 1700s--which is when Catherine the Great let them into Russia, as you previously said here.

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: German settlement in Russia / USSR

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 05 Jan 2020 00:28

Thanks for this document.

But, i have read that german merchants had many business with Russia in the middle ages. Didnt they settle there a bit ?
No memory of that in Ukraine or Russia so far ?

Futurist
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Re: German settlement in Russia / USSR

Post by Futurist » 06 Jan 2020 05:42

That unfortunately I don't know.

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