Genetic Differentiation Between Poland and Germany Follows Present-Day Political Borders

[henryk]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15959808/

Hum Genet
. 2005 Sep;117(5):428-43. doi: 10.1007/s00439-005-1333-9. Epub 2005 Jun 16.
Significant Genetic Differentiation Between Poland and Germany Follows Present-Day Political Borders, as Revealed by Y-chromosome Analysis
Manfred Kayser 1 , Oscar Lao, Katja Anslinger, Christa Augustin, Grazyna Bargel, Jeanett Edelmann, Sahar Elias, Marielle Heinrich, Jürgen Henke, Lotte Henke, Carsten Hohoff, Anett Illing, Anna Jonkisz, Piotr Kuzniar, Arleta Lebioda, Rüdiger Lessig, Slawomir Lewicki, Agnieszka Maciejewska, Dorota Marta Monies, Ryszard Pawłowski, Micaela Poetsch, Dagmar Schmid, Ulrike Schmidt, Peter M Schneider, Beate Stradmann-Bellinghausen, Reinhard Szibor, Rudolf Wegener, Marcin Wozniak, Magdalena Zoledziewska, Lutz Roewer, Tadeusz Dobosz, Rafal Ploski
Affiliations Expand
PMID: 15959808 DOI: 10.1007/s00439-005-1333-9
Abstract
To test for human population substructure and to investigate human population history we have analysed Y-chromosome diversity using seven microsatellites (Y-STRs) and ten binary markers (Y-SNPs) in samples from eight regionally distributed populations from Poland (n = 913) and 11 from Germany (n = 1,215). Based on data from both Y-chromosome marker systems, which we found to be highly correlated (r = 0.96), and using spatial analysis of the molecular variance (SAMOVA), we revealed statistically significant support for two groups of populations: (1) all Polish populations and (2) all German populations. By means of analysis of the molecular variance (AMOVA) we observed a large and statistically significant proportion of 14% (for Y-SNPs) and 15% (for Y-STRs) of the respective total genetic variation being explained between both countries. The same population differentiation was detected using Monmonier's algorithm, with a resulting genetic border between Poland and Germany that closely resembles the course of the political border between both countries. The observed genetic differentiation was mainly, but not exclusively, due to the frequency distribution of two Y-SNP haplogroups and their associated Y-STR haplotypes: R1a1*, most frequent in Poland, and R1*(xR1a1), most frequent in Germany. We suggest here that the pronounced population differentiation between the two geographically neighbouring countries, Poland and Germany, is the consequence of very recent events in human population history, namely the forced human resettlement of many millions of Germans and Poles during and, especially, shortly after World War II. In addition, our findings have consequences for the forensic application of Y-chromosome markers, strongly supporting the implementation of population substructure into forensic Y chromosome databases, and also for genetic association studies.

[Sheldrake]

In think the key sentence is...

the pronounced population differentiation between...Poland and Germany, is the consequence of .....the forced human resettlement of many millions of Germans and Poles during and, especially, shortly after World War II.

[wm]

Although it's nonsense - the resettled Germans never lived in Poland, and the resettled Poles were resettled inside Poland.

The true reason is the Polish territories with substantial non-Polish populations were forcibly handed over to the USSR, despite the fact Russians didn't live there.
It was a payoff for Stalin's services for the Allies, not much different from the payoff specified in the Hitler-Stalin pact of 1939.

[Futurist]

Although it's nonsense - the resettled Germans never lived in Poland, and the resettled Poles were resettled inside Poland.

The true reason is the Polish territories with substantial non-Polish populations were forcibly handed over to the USSR, despite the fact Russians didn't live there.
It was a payoff for Stalin's services for the Allies, not much different from the payoff specified in the Hitler-Stalin pact of 1939.

Minor nitpick: Russians didn't live in the Kresy in large numbers but Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Lithuanians did.

[wm]

And they were Russians only according to Soviet or today's Russia propaganda.

[Futurist]

And they were Russians only according to Soviet or today's Russia propaganda.

I don't think that the Soviet Union actually considered Ukrainians and Belarusians to be Russians, but rather as fraternal peoples.

[wm]

They said in communist Poland that the Russians were brothers but not friends.
Because you could choose your friends but not your brothers.

[Futurist]

Touche.

[Futurist]

Although it's nonsense - the resettled Germans never lived in Poland, and the resettled Poles were resettled inside Poland.

The true reason is the Polish territories with substantial non-Polish populations were forcibly handed over to the USSR, despite the fact Russians didn't live there.
It was a payoff for Stalin's services for the Allies, not much different from the payoff specified in the Hitler-Stalin pact of 1939.

I do wonder if the resettled Germans--especially from the German-Polish borderlands--would have had a genetic profile that would have been somewhere in between that of western Germans and Poles, though. After all, I've previously heard that there is a possibility that some or even many Poles in the "Recovered Territories" might have become Germanized during the Ostsiedlung and subsequently married Germans.

[history1]

Although it's nonsense - the resettled Germans never lived in Poland, and the resettled Poles were resettled inside Poland. [...]

It´s indeed utter nonsense.
1. Because Germans got expelled from Poland from 1945-1949. Are you claiming now that Poland didn´t exist during this time?
2. What you call "resettlement inside Poland" was indeed annexed former German land.

But I see that PiS-slaves are very busy on Wikipedia falsifying Polish history. They mention of course the evil Slovaks attacking Poland in the first weeks of Sept. 1939 but not the annexations of Slovakia by Poland in 1938!

" The Polish Army, commanded by General Władysław Bortnowski, annexed an area of 801.5 km² with a population of 227,399 people. "

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80
%93Czechoslovak_border_conflicts#Annexations_by_Poland_in_1938

Or here again, while of course they mention the
> the evil Soviets responsible for Katyn
> the terrible Ukrainians killing Poles in the Ukrainian/Polish conflicts and
> naturally the cruel Germans who murdered 90% of the Polish Jews (how many of them got murderded by Polish countrymen/partisans?)
they seem to have erased the pogroms in Kielce and Lwiw in 1918 (both in Poland at this time) or Jewabne and the Kielce pogrom in 1946 were Poles murdered Jewish Holocaust survivors, from their mind. No word about the anti-semitic regulastions in pre WWII-Poland either.
And of course they do mention resettled Poles but not Millions of expelled Germans.
And ten of thousands Polish Jews forced to leave the country are "a few".
I wonder if that is not part of Poland´s history? Obviously it´s "defending" the good name of Poland.
Sources (AFAIR):
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polska
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historia_Polski
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historia_ ... 80%931989)


Is this the explanation for wm´s claim "the resettled Germans never lived in Poland"? And when Germans never did live in Poland how was it possible that post WWII Polish courts did convict them for treason? How is it possible that Polish historians do call them "Polnische Volksdeutsche" = Polish ethnic Germans or Poles from the German minority (what they were as they did hold Polish citizenship according Polish court files).

[wm]

The expelled Germans lived outside Poland, and that had been true since 1526. The territories became a part of Poland only in 1945.

The Germans in pre-war Poland formed a minority of the expelled Germans. The majority of Germans were expelled from territories allocated to Poland by the Allies in 1945, not from the territories of pre-war Poland.

The annexation was a part of conflicts that festered since 1918. It was a disputed territory since then. Entire books are written about it.
Slovakia was a Hitler's puppet and would attack with or without the annexation.