The end of tanks as we know it?

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 07 Nov 2022 07:07

The 103rd Armored Repair plant was contracted to refurbish 800 T-62 tanks to T-62M standard over a 3- year period. This is just one contract. Russia has more than one Armored repair plant and more than one tank factory..

At UVZ they are producing modernized T-90 and T-72. The T-90 tanks are built from scratch by Russia. The T-72s are most likely refurbished from equipment stocks.

The UVZ was expected to finish 300 "products" (likely in the main, tanks) by the end of this year(August-December) but they have not met this goal. As stated earlier Shoigu wanted 2 "products" completed a day but UVZ did not meet this production rate.

UVZ is the largest tank factory in Russia and its maximum production rate is 400 units of 'products' a year.

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by peeved » 07 Nov 2022 08:18

Cult Icon wrote:
07 Nov 2022 07:07
As stated earlier Shoigu wanted 2 "products" completed a day but UVZ did not meet this production rate.

UVZ is the largest tank factory in Russia and its maximum production rate is 400 units of 'products' a year.
So Sergei Shitgoo wants a 730 units' production annually from a factory capable of 400.

Did the minister of offense demand the goal to be reached without factory expansion and/or modernisation? How would any coordination from Dmitry Medwetpants exchange reality for a stakhanovite Soviet paradise?

Markus

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 07 Nov 2022 13:47




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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by peeved » 07 Nov 2022 16:53

johnwilliamhunter wrote:
07 Nov 2022 06:20
Counting armored vehicle losses from the last week, from videos and photos, 9 of the 12 Russian tank losses have been T-80BV models, 12 Ukrainian tanks lost in the same period, 2 T-64, 2 T-72, 2 T-80, 6 I'm not sure of the models. Armored vehicles of all types I count 30 Russian and 50 Ukrainian.
Can your numbers be corroborated from any reliable source?

Markus

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 07 Nov 2022 22:56

What is more important than tanks is finding out evidence of the Russians performing brigade-level maneuvers with their reservist infantry battalions and whether they intend on deploying their brigades to Ukraine in accordance with doctrine. I think this is likely as the BTG has been a failure in the offense and really more suitable for the defense (as pre-war analysts have predicted).

When they go after Khakiv Oblast or Odessa Oblast it is more likely that they will use methodical battle like in the Luhansk, this time with vastly more infantry. It would not surprise me if the Russians would have infantry superiority for the first time in the war, prepared for such an operation. This method would not require 2700 tanks, hundreds would be enough.

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 07 Nov 2022 23:42

In a RAND 2019 report on the Russian army, it indicates that UVZ has played a significant role in preparing the Russian tank force in Ukraine. It was contracted, since 2013 to convert 300 T-72B to T-72B3 standard every year.

completed T-72:

2013: 260
2014: 293
2015: 170

SOURCE: Andrey Frolov, “Russian Defense Procurement in 2011,” Moscow Defense Brief, No. 28, 2012; Tomas
Malmlof and Roger Roffey, “The Russian Defence Industry and Procurement,” in Gudrun Persson, Russian
Military Capability in a Ten-Year Perspective—2016, FOI-R—4326—SE, December 2016, p. 172

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by mezsat2 » 08 Nov 2022 02:24

Cult Icon wrote:
07 Nov 2022 07:07
The 103rd Armored Repair plant was contracted to refurbish 800 T-62 tanks to T-62M standard over a 3- year period. This is just one contract. Russia has more than one Armored repair plant and more than one tank factory..

At UVZ they are producing modernized T-90 and T-72. The T-90 tanks are built from scratch by Russia. The T-72s are most likely refurbished from equipment stocks.

The UVZ was expected to finish 300 "products" (likely in the main, tanks) by the end of this year(August-December) but they have not met this goal. As stated earlier Shoigu wanted 2 "products" completed a day but UVZ did not meet this production rate.

UVZ is the largest tank factory in Russia and its maximum production rate is 400 units of 'products' a year.
Here is the difficulty Russia is facing. It needs no real explanation on my part
other than the fact these are tiny, essentially artisan shops scattered all over
Ukraine putting these machines back into service for the UKR. As you can see
from the video, these are not "targetable" facilities, yet their output represents
more than half of all the existing Ukrainian armor in the field.

https://news.yahoo.com/ukrainians-fix-c ... p_catchall

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/ukraine ... leet-size/

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by johnwilliamhunter » 08 Nov 2022 05:33

peeved wrote:
07 Nov 2022 16:53
johnwilliamhunter wrote:
07 Nov 2022 06:20
Counting armored vehicle losses from the last week, from videos and photos, 9 of the 12 Russian tank losses have been T-80BV models, 12 Ukrainian tanks lost in the same period, 2 T-64, 2 T-72, 2 T-80, 6 I'm not sure of the models. Armored vehicles of all types I count 30 Russian and 50 Ukrainian.
Can your numbers be corroborated from any reliable source?

Markus
Want me to post 80 photos? Mostly the Russian losses are documented on UAWeaponstracker, Ukrainian losses are mostly published on Telegram, but I don't expect you to agree that anything is a reliable source unless it comes from the Ukrainian, UK, or US government.

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 08 Nov 2022 13:47

UVZ's 2016 annual report revealed that the T-90 is a major export product for the firm. Also UVZ's business is primarily civilian, not military. :

• 64 T-90S series tanks to Vietnam
• 73 T-90S series tanks to Iraq
• 146 T-90MS series tanks to Kuwait
• Further work on tanks supplied to India, Belarus, and Armenia
• Spare parts supply to Ethiopia and Angola
• Development of the ability for Egypt to conduct licensed production of T-90S series
tanks.

These exports are in addition to the contract signed with India in November for the delivery of 464 T-90MS kits.

The war in Ukraine and state orders will change its trajectory, but it is unknown how long it will take to maximize its military output beyond 400 units a year.

T-90A production 2007-2010: 31, 62, 63, 61.
Last edited by Cult Icon on 08 Nov 2022 14:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 08 Nov 2022 13:52

Arzamas Machine-Building Plant and JSC Kurganmashzavod are two of their IFV manufacturers. I suspect that as time passes, the Russians will try to use their auto industry to manufacture tanks and IFVs as well (which is what typically happens in the US in wartime)- if they have not done so already.

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by peeved » 08 Nov 2022 16:17

johnwilliamhunter wrote:
08 Nov 2022 05:33
peeved wrote:
07 Nov 2022 16:53
johnwilliamhunter wrote:
07 Nov 2022 06:20
Counting armored vehicle losses from the last week, from videos and photos, 9 of the 12 Russian tank losses have been T-80BV models, 12 Ukrainian tanks lost in the same period, 2 T-64, 2 T-72, 2 T-80, 6 I'm not sure of the models. Armored vehicles of all types I count 30 Russian and 50 Ukrainian.
Can your numbers be corroborated from any reliable source?
Want me to post 80 photos?
Of course not.
Corroborate; verb: confirm or give support to (a statement, theory, or finding).
Reliable source. Since I doubt that anyone expects anything but pro-Orc bias from the likes of you, you are not one.
I would like to see proof that the videos and photos have been competently analysed and numbers and damage level if any confirmed by a truthful open-source intelligence operator.
johnwilliamhunter wrote:
08 Nov 2022 05:33
Mostly the Russian losses are documented on UAWeaponstracker, Ukrainian losses are mostly published on Telegram
Wherever as long as they are not analysed by some pro-Orc liar troll.
johnwilliamhunter wrote:
08 Nov 2022 05:33
but I don't expect you to agree that anything is a reliable source unless it comes from the Ukrainian, UK, or US government.
Spoken like a pro-Orc troll. I don't expect you to agree that anything is a reliable source unless it comes from the Criminal Ruffian governing male members or other despicable sources.

For me e.g. Oryx would do nicely. I see no need to doubt UK or US government sources either if you happen to be privy to their combat loss analysis data.

Markus

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 08 Nov 2022 18:03

Image

Image

Image

Various vehicles, including T-62M? completely covered with ERA blocks. It looks like Ukraine taught them something.

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 08 Nov 2022 18:05

Image

Image

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Tom Peters » 09 Nov 2022 02:40

Cult Icon wrote:
07 Nov 2022 22:56
What is more important than tanks is finding out evidence of the Russians performing brigade-level maneuvers with their reservist infantry battalions and whether they intend on deploying their brigades to Ukraine in accordance with doctrine. I think this is likely as the BTG has been a failure in the offense and really more suitable for the defense (as pre-war analysts have predicted).

When they go after Khakiv Oblast or Odessa Oblast it is more likely that they will use methodical battle like in the Luhansk, this time with vastly more infantry. It would not surprise me if the Russians would have infantry superiority for the first time in the war, prepared for such an operation. This method would not require 2700 tanks, hundreds would be enough.
There is a lot of presumption there. How in the world are the RU going to get towards Odessa at this rate. Their artillery expenditures have fallen drastically. I am beginning to wonder if they can do another Severodonetsk.

Mad Dog

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Tom Peters » 09 Nov 2022 02:42

peeved wrote:
08 Nov 2022 16:17
johnwilliamhunter wrote:
08 Nov 2022 05:33
peeved wrote:
07 Nov 2022 16:53
johnwilliamhunter wrote:
07 Nov 2022 06:20
Counting armored vehicle losses from the last week, from videos and photos, 9 of the 12 Russian tank losses have been T-80BV models, 12 Ukrainian tanks lost in the same period, 2 T-64, 2 T-72, 2 T-80, 6 I'm not sure of the models. Armored vehicles of all types I count 30 Russian and 50 Ukrainian.
Can your numbers be corroborated from any reliable source?
Want me to post 80 photos?
Of course not.
Corroborate; verb: confirm or give support to (a statement, theory, or finding).
Reliable source. Since I doubt that anyone expects anything but pro-Orc bias from the likes of you, you are not one.
I would like to see proof that the videos and photos have been competently analysed and numbers and damage level if any confirmed by a truthful open-source intelligence operator.
johnwilliamhunter wrote:
08 Nov 2022 05:33
Mostly the Russian losses are documented on UAWeaponstracker, Ukrainian losses are mostly published on Telegram
Wherever as long as they are not analysed by some pro-Orc liar troll.
johnwilliamhunter wrote:
08 Nov 2022 05:33
but I don't expect you to agree that anything is a reliable source unless it comes from the Ukrainian, UK, or US government.
Spoken like a pro-Orc troll. I don't expect you to agree that anything is a reliable source unless it comes from the Criminal Ruffian governing male members or other despicable sources.

For me e.g. Oryx would do nicely. I see no need to doubt UK or US government sources either if you happen to be privy to their combat loss analysis data.

Markus
Oryx is the generally accepted sourced, and a while back lostarmour agreed with oryx. I havnt looked at UAWeaponstracker yet.

Mad Dog

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