The end of tanks as we know it?

[ljadw]

The fact remains that it takes at least 10 weeks to have 10 % of the tanks in a depot in Saragossa operational and that is without the time needed to transport these tanks to Ukraine .'' The training sessions will begin as soon as possible '' :this means that no one knows when the training sessions will begin : February ?March ? April? May ? ......
If after 10 weeks 90 % of these tanks are still not operational,or are used to be cannibalized to make the other 10 % operational .

Why didn't you read the article and thinking a bit rather than spewing drivel?

This is probably the most important biy:

"Speed will be the predominant factor, since the informal coalition providing Kyiv with the German tanks has set as a goal for the Ukrainian Army to have two battalions ready for action by the spring."

Do you need me to explain to you how many tanks make up two battalions? How many countries make up the tank 'coalition'? Or when Spring ends?

The German minister of Defense (Pistorius ) disagrees with you .
On the ARD Text from this morning (ARD =German TV ) one could read the following "
'' Pistorius dämpft Erwartungen an eine schnelle Bildung eines Bataillons von modernen L-2-A6-Panzern für die Ukraine durch die Europäer .''
In English :
'' Pistorius is damping the expectations for a quick formation of a battalion of modern L2-A6-tanks for Ukraine by European states .''
He said also that for the moment only 14 German and 3 Portugese L2s were available (and : available is not operational ) and that on Polish side the situation is not better .
I know that this will hurt the Anand fans, but I don't care and that Aida will say that Pistorius is stupid, but I don't care .
The two tank battalions will not be ready this spring and for the moment the tank''coalition ''is made up by 2 countries : Portugal (3 ) and Germany (14 ) .

[Gooner1]

"The Minister of Defence: Norway is sending eight Leopard tanks to Ukraine

BRUSSELS (VG) The government will donate eight Leopard 2 A4 tanks to Ukraine.
In addition, there will be four armored support vehicles, says Minister of Defense Bjørn Arild Gram before the NATO Defense Ministers' meeting in Brussels on Tuesday.
The type of support vehicle, which could for example be an engineering vehicle, salvage vehicle or paver, must be assessed based on Ukraine's needs.

- The government believes that with this donation of tanks, Norway will still have a satisfactory national preparedness. It is an assessment that the defense chief shares. We will also still be able to maintain our obligations towards NATO, says the Minister of Defence.

He says that the delivery will be in place quickly, and the training of Ukrainian soldiers is already underway.

- It is almost a year since Russia's attack on Ukraine. It has been a fateful year of war, war crimes, destruction and killing on a scale not seen since the Second World War. It is more crucial than ever to support Ukraine's defense struggle. Therefore, we have decided that we will donate eight tanks and up to four support vehicles to Ukraine. Several allied countries have also done the same, says Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre.

The Minister of Defense says that the decision to donate tanks and support vehicles has been made after dialogue both with the Chief of Defense and other European countries.

- The situation in Ukraine is approaching a critical phase and they are dependent on rapid and comprehensive Western support. We will also contribute with the education and training of Ukrainian tank crews in Poland, together with other allied countries. This donation is an important and requested contribution, says Gram.

At the end of January, Gram confirmed that Norway would send tanks to Ukraine.

- The government supports the donation of tanks to Ukraine and Norway must contribute to such a donation. We are now in close dialogue with allies and Ukraine about how Norway can contribute in the best possible way, Gram wrote in an e-mail to VG in January."

https://www.vg.no/nyheter/i/q1mXWm/fors ... il-ukraina

[Gooner1]

Le dernier des quatre chars d'assaut Leopard 2 promis à l'Ukraine a été chargé à bord d'un avion C-17 des Forces canadiennes, jeudi matin.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/19 ... ine-guerre

[Cult Icon]

"Russia ready to help India with tanks
Moscow can share its Armata tracked platform with New Delhi, a senior official has said"

"Moscow is ready to provide technology for India’s new tanks, Vladimir Drozhzhov, the deputy director of the Russian Federal Service of Military-Technical Cooperation (FSVTS), said on Tuesday. According to Drozhzhov, Russia can share its advanced Armata modular tracked platform with India.

“The Russian side is planning to participate in joint development of the Indian main battle tank with the use of modern Russian technology,” Drozhzhov told RIA Novosti news agency at the Aero India 2023 expo in Bangalore."

https://www.rt.com/russia/571441-russia ... dia-tanks/

The more interesting thing is what Russia wants to get in return.

[Gorque]

So what do you think happened to this barrel?

T-72B3.jpeg

[Gooner1]

Ukrainians training on Leopard Ils in Poland.

I bet the Ukrainians like the reverse speed!



Incidentally the Polish Minister of Defence confirms that 4 Canadian Leo lls are there already.

[ljadw]

Le dernier des quatre chars d'assaut Leopard 2 promis à l'Ukraine a été chargé à bord d'un avion C-17 des Forces canadiennes, jeudi matin.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/19 ... ine-guerre

And what is the destination of this tank ?

[ljadw]

"The Minister of Defence: Norway is sending eight Leopard tanks to Ukraine

BRUSSELS (VG) The government will donate eight Leopard 2 A4 tanks to Ukraine.
In addition, there will be four armored support vehicles, says Minister of Defense Bjørn Arild Gram before the NATO Defense Ministers' meeting in Brussels on Tuesday.
The type of support vehicle, which could for example be an engineering vehicle, salvage vehicle or paver, must be assessed based on Ukraine's needs.

- The government believes that with this donation of tanks, Norway will still have a satisfactory national preparedness. It is an assessment that the defense chief shares. We will also still be able to maintain our obligations towards NATO, says the Minister of Defence.

He says that the delivery will be in place quickly, and the training of Ukrainian soldiers is already underway.

- It is almost a year since Russia's attack on Ukraine. It has been a fateful year of war, war crimes, destruction and killing on a scale not seen since the Second World War. It is more crucial than ever to support Ukraine's defense struggle. Therefore, we have decided that we will donate eight tanks and up to four support vehicles to Ukraine. Several allied countries have also done the same, says Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre.

The Minister of Defense says that the decision to donate tanks and support vehicles has been made after dialogue both with the Chief of Defense and other European countries.

- The situation in Ukraine is approaching a critical phase and they are dependent on rapid and comprehensive Western support. We will also contribute with the education and training of Ukrainian tank crews in Poland, together with other allied countries. This donation is an important and requested contribution, says Gram.

At the end of January, Gram confirmed that Norway would send tanks to Ukraine.

- The government supports the donation of tanks to Ukraine and Norway must contribute to such a donation. We are now in close dialogue with allies and Ukraine about how Norway can contribute in the best possible way, Gram wrote in an e-mail to VG in January."

https://www.vg.no/nyheter/i/q1mXWm/fors ... il-ukraina

As long as these 8 Norwegian tanks are not at the frontline in Ukraine,there is no reason to believe the declarations of a Norwegian politician .
And, as long as these 8 tanks are not committed in the fighting,they will not help Ukraine . And,as the present front has a length of 8 km,there is no reason that 8 tanks operating along this front would make any difference .
Besides, no one knows when these tanks will be operational :
in 2017 Norway had 52 tanks of which 36 ''operational ''. 6 years later,the number of ''operational ''tanks has decreased .And one can doubt that these ''operational ''tanks will be able to fight in a war .
Why ?Norway has now ordered 54 new LeoA7s ,which will be operational only in 2030 ( haha ) to replace its present tanks .
If the 52 LeoA4s need to be replaced (after more than 30 years of service ) ,why would they be useful in the Ukrainian war ?
And, if they would be useful in the Ukrainian war , why must they be replaced by LeoA7s and not by other LeoA4s ?

[Aida1]

"The Minister of Defence: Norway is sending eight Leopard tanks to Ukraine

BRUSSELS (VG) The government will donate eight Leopard 2 A4 tanks to Ukraine.
In addition, there will be four armored support vehicles, says Minister of Defense Bjørn Arild Gram before the NATO Defense Ministers' meeting in Brussels on Tuesday.
The type of support vehicle, which could for example be an engineering vehicle, salvage vehicle or paver, must be assessed based on Ukraine's needs.

- The government believes that with this donation of tanks, Norway will still have a satisfactory national preparedness. It is an assessment that the defense chief shares. We will also still be able to maintain our obligations towards NATO, says the Minister of Defence.

He says that the delivery will be in place quickly, and the training of Ukrainian soldiers is already underway.

- It is almost a year since Russia's attack on Ukraine. It has been a fateful year of war, war crimes, destruction and killing on a scale not seen since the Second World War. It is more crucial than ever to support Ukraine's defense struggle. Therefore, we have decided that we will donate eight tanks and up to four support vehicles to Ukraine. Several allied countries have also done the same, says Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre.

The Minister of Defense says that the decision to donate tanks and support vehicles has been made after dialogue both with the Chief of Defense and other European countries.

- The situation in Ukraine is approaching a critical phase and they are dependent on rapid and comprehensive Western support. We will also contribute with the education and training of Ukrainian tank crews in Poland, together with other allied countries. This donation is an important and requested contribution, says Gram.

At the end of January, Gram confirmed that Norway would send tanks to Ukraine.

- The government supports the donation of tanks to Ukraine and Norway must contribute to such a donation. We are now in close dialogue with allies and Ukraine about how Norway can contribute in the best possible way, Gram wrote in an e-mail to VG in January."

https://www.vg.no/nyheter/i/q1mXWm/fors ... il-ukraina

As long as these 8 Norwegian tanks are at the frontline in Ukraine,there is no reason to believe the declarations of a Norwegian politician .
And, as long as these 8 tanks are not committed in the fighting,they will not help Ukraine . And,as the present front has a length of 8 km,there is no reason that 8 tanks operating along this front would make any difference .
Besides, no one knows when these tanks will be operational :
in 2017 Norway had 52 tanks of which 36 ''operational ''. 6 years later,the number of ''operational ''tanks has decreased .And one can doubt that these ''operational ''tanks will be able to fight in a war .
Why ?Norway has now ordered 54 new LeoA7s ,which will be operational only in 2030 ( haha ) to replace its present tanks .
If the 52 LeoA4s need to be replaced (after more than 30 years of service ) ,why would they be useful in the Ukrainian war ?
And, if they would be useful in the Ukrainian war , why must they be replaced by LeoA7s and not by other LeoA4s ?

As usual denying everything you do not like.

[Gooner1]

From the International Institute for Strategic Studies

https://www.iiss.org/blogs/analysis/202 ... nt-remarks

"As Russia and Ukraine fight in 2023, Russia will be using an inventory that has changed significantly over the year. Around 50% of its pre-invasion fleet of modern T-72B3s and T-72B3M main battle tanks is assessed to have been lost. The Fourth Guards Tank Division, equipped with the T-80U, suffered heavily in February-March 2022 and Russia’s inventory of T-80BV/U tanks is estimated to have been reduced by two-thirds. Industrial production continues but remains slow, forcing Moscow to rely on its older stored weapons as attrition replacements. The need to re-equip during war raises questions over the direction and durability of Russia’s state armaments programme and its future military modernisation ambitions.

[Gooner1]

An analysis of Oryxspioenkop loss data showing just how staggering Russian armour losses have been:




https://twitter.com/partizan_oleg/statu ... 9565468674

[Tom Peters]

That does not disprove what I said : Japan was not defeated by the Atomic Bomb .The liberation of the Philippines happened without the Atomic Bomb

Please tell us why the defeat of Japan has something to do with the liberation of the P. ? Stay on target please.

.The war could would also have ended without the Atomic Bomb .

But it didnt.

Sources: reality.

Mad Dog

[Tom Peters]

"Russia ready to help India with tanks
Moscow can share its Armata tracked platform with New Delhi, a senior official has said"

"Moscow is ready to provide technology for India’s new tanks, Vladimir Drozhzhov, the deputy director of the Russian Federal Service of Military-Technical Cooperation (FSVTS), said on Tuesday. According to Drozhzhov, Russia can share its advanced Armata modular tracked platform with India.

“The Russian side is planning to participate in joint development of the Indian main battle tank with the use of modern Russian technology,” Drozhzhov told RIA Novosti news agency at the Aero India 2023 expo in Bangalore."

https://www.rt.com/russia/571441-russia ... dia-tanks/

The more interesting thing is what Russia wants to get in return.

Given the very poor showing of RU tanks in UKR (or Moscow parade marches), not sure why India would be interested in the (absent from the battlefield) T-14.

I can only hope the RU arms market is taking a beating due to the war in UKR.

MadDog

[ljadw]

''Poor '' showing of RU tanks in UK or Moscow parade marches do not prove that the T-14 is not good .

[Cult Icon]

new Tank repair plants 71 and 72 established in Russia. It would take months for them to become operational.

71 Ramenskoye, Moscow staffing 365 persons

72 Kamensk-Shakhtinsky, Rostov staffing 227 persons

These plants are typically not just for 'repairing' tanks but also for refurbishing and modernizing tanks from Soviet storage.