The end of tanks as we know it?

Discussions on other historical eras.
User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4455
Joined: 08 Apr 2014 19:00

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 02 Mar 2023 15:05

The Western Tanks are mainly for propaganda purposes and are an expensive last resort, ex soviet weapons and ammo are running short.

When they are used in the Ukraine their mystique will shatter as fast the great world beating Russian tank force did by March 2022.

User avatar
wm
Member
Posts: 8740
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 20:11
Location: Poland

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by wm » 02 Mar 2023 15:26

ljadw wrote:
02 Mar 2023 10:57
wm wrote:
01 Mar 2023 23:50
The ugly one is just a dumb laser.
The nice one can provide coordinates for GPS-guided munitions, so you don't have to illuminate the target for minutes as if it were the last century.
You continue to ignore the human factor, the weather, the terrain , the presence of the opponent, etc ...
War is not a game where the side with the most expensive weapons will win .

Yes, it's all human factor till a competent enemy detects the crude laser with his BLDS and sends a single HIMARS your way.

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15415
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 17:50

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 02 Mar 2023 17:44

Not :till, but if .
You need an enemy with a BLDS ( how many enemies with BLDS ? ) and a HIMARS ( how many HIMARS ? and how many are operational ? ) ,you need also an opponent with a crude laser ( there are how many of them ? ) and you need also a competent enemy .
And, what is the percent of rockets fired by HIMARS against mobile targets ,that were successful ?
And, what is the importance of the unknown number of mobile targets that are destroyed by rockets fired by HIMARS ?

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4455
Joined: 08 Apr 2014 19:00

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 02 Mar 2023 17:49

The Russians have far more long-ranged firepower than Ukraine due to their Strategic Rocket Forces and GLONASS guided rockets for their heavy MLRS.

The GLONASS heavy rockets are similar to HIMARS.

The main curiosity is why the US gave Ukraine so few HIMARS. It is only enough to reposition Russian logistics further back to the rear and disperse ammunition dumps. If the US gave more than token quantities of HIMARS (eg 20) that would likely cross a red line and Russians would probably have to use tactical nuclear weapons. US has hundreds of HIMARS systems and has increased production to 96/yr.

User avatar
Aida1
Member
Posts: 4191
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 08:46
Location: Brussels

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Aida1 » 02 Mar 2023 18:04

ljadw wrote:
02 Mar 2023 10:57
wm wrote:
01 Mar 2023 23:50
The ugly one is just a dumb laser.
The nice one can provide coordinates for GPS-guided munitions, so you don't have to illuminate the target for minutes as if it were the last century.
You continue to ignore the human factor, the weather, the terrain , the presence of the opponent, etc ...
War is not a game where the side with the most expensive weapons will win .
The one with superior weapons will win unless he does not uses them properly.

User avatar
wm
Member
Posts: 8740
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 20:11
Location: Poland

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by wm » 02 Mar 2023 23:23

The Russian HIMARS are of the Prince Potemkin kind.

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4455
Joined: 08 Apr 2014 19:00

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 03 Mar 2023 04:59

Image

Troshin Sergey Nikolaevich "Friendship and cooperation for the sake of peace" 2022 Russia-China Tank biathlon

It will be very interesting if Russian armored and motor-rifle units return to Ukraine with Chinese tanks.

It looks like, after all, China was the real second army in the world.

User avatar
Aida1
Member
Posts: 4191
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 08:46
Location: Brussels

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Aida1 » 03 Mar 2023 07:50

Cult Icon wrote:
03 Mar 2023 04:59
Image

Troshin Sergey Nikolaevich "Friendship and cooperation for the sake of peace" 2022 Russia-China Tank biathlon

It will be very interesting if Russian armored and motor-rifle units return to Ukraine with Chinese tanks.

It looks like, after all, China was the real second army in the world.
You are clearly losing your mind. :lol: :lol:

Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1537
Joined: 04 Sep 2004 21:18
Location: GA

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Tom Peters » 03 Mar 2023 16:51

Cult Icon wrote:
03 Mar 2023 04:59

It will be very interesting if Russian armored and motor-rifle units return to Ukraine with Chinese tanks.

It looks like, after all, China was the real second army in the world.
I dont know if "interesting" is the best word for that.

Chinese tanks should be relatively easy to note as they look fairly different (Type99).

Mad Dog

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4455
Joined: 08 Apr 2014 19:00

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 04 Mar 2023 05:29

PLA IISS 2021

MBT 5,650: 600 ZTZ-59/-59-II; 600 ZTZ-59D; 200 ZTZ-79;
300 ZTZ-88A/B; 1,000 ZTZ-96; 1,500 ZTZ-96A; 600 ZTZ99; 600 ZTZ-99A; 250 ZTQ-15

LT TK 350: 250 ZTD-05; 100 ZTS-63A

ASLT 950 ZTL-11

IFV 6,700: 400 ZBD-04; 1,900 ZBD-04A; 2,000 ZBL-08; 600
ZBD-86; 650 ZBD-86A; 550 ZSL-92; 600 ZSL-92B

APC 3,950
APC (T) 2,700: 750 ZSD-63; 200 ZSD-63C; 1,750 ZSD89
APC (W) 1,250: 700 ZSL-92A; 500 ZSL-10; 50 ZSL-93

AAV 600 ZBD-05

User avatar
wm
Member
Posts: 8740
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 20:11
Location: Poland

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by wm » 04 Mar 2023 21:25

Rheinmetall.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
dgfred
Member
Posts: 383
Joined: 31 Jan 2008 16:56
Location: N.C., USA

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by dgfred » 07 Mar 2023 18:40

don't know how good it is in combat... but that is a good looking tank.

James A Pratt III
Member
Posts: 894
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 00:08
Location: Texas

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by James A Pratt III » 07 Mar 2023 19:41

Build a tank factory in the Ukraine? what a stupid beyond belief idea with the war going on. If one is ever built it will be under drone ect attack from the time construction starts.

Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1537
Joined: 04 Sep 2004 21:18
Location: GA

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Tom Peters » 09 Mar 2023 01:26

James A Pratt III wrote:
07 Mar 2023 19:41
Build a tank factory in the Ukraine? what a stupid beyond belief idea with the war going on. If one is ever built it will be under drone ect attack from the time construction starts.
I suspect the offer is meant for post-war. I cant imagine you could build a tank factory for a modern one, even assuming you could manufacture all the relevant sub-assemblies.

Mad Dog

User avatar
Aida1
Member
Posts: 4191
Joined: 04 Aug 2019 08:46
Location: Brussels

Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Aida1 » 09 Mar 2023 09:32

James A Pratt III wrote:
07 Mar 2023 19:41
Build a tank factory in the Ukraine? what a stupid beyond belief idea with the war going on. If one is ever built it will be under drone ect attack from the time construction starts.
There is such a thing as air defenses. :roll: :roll:

Return to “Other eras”