The end of tanks as we know it?

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Gooner1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Gooner1 » 23 Mar 2023 22:32

3 more Leopard 2R from Finland making 6 in total

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Another sign that Ukraine intends to do things properly

Tom Peters
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Tom Peters » 25 Mar 2023 00:30

Interesting claims about the inability of RU AFV factories to produce at full speed:

https://twitter.com/pati_marins64/statu ... 2Fpage-354

This is uncorroborated, but might explain the trend to using T-62 and T-54/55.

Mad Dog

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 26 Mar 2023 14:26

Putin's claims. Over the next year we will see if they come to pass:

Statements by Russian President Vladimir Putin in an interview with journalists

🔻On military cooperation with Belarus:

▪️Russia does not transfer tactical nuclear weapons to Belarus, but will deploy them and train the military.

▪️On July 1, the construction of a storage facility for TNW in the neighboring republic will be completed.

▪️Russia has already helped the Belarusians to modernize the aircraft for the use of tactical weapons, the Iskander complex has been transferred. Crew training will begin on April 3.

🔻On Western arms supplies to Ukraine:

▪️Ukraine uses up to 5 thousand shells per day, and the United States produces only 14-15 thousand per month.

▪️The Russian arms industry will produce three times as much ammunition as the West can supply to Ukraine.

▪️The West plans to send about 400 tanks to Ukraine, but during this time Russia will produce more than 1600.

▪️The Russian side has something to respond to the transfer of shells with depleted uranium - there are hundreds of thousands of them at the disposal of the Russian Armed Forces.

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wm
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by wm » 27 Mar 2023 19:43

Is that true? That T-14 Armata's engine is almost straight from the Tiger tank?


ljadw
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 27 Mar 2023 20:15

Tom Peters wrote:
25 Mar 2023 00:30
Interesting claims about the inability of RU AFV factories to produce at full speed:

https://twitter.com/pati_marins64/statu ... 2Fpage-354

This is uncorroborated, but might explain the trend to using T-62 and T-54/55.

Mad Dog
To produce at full speed does not mean that more tanks can be committed :to use more tanks, crew is also needed,and technicians, ammunition, fuel,spare parts, infantry and artillery as protection, ...

James A Pratt III
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by James A Pratt III » 27 Mar 2023 20:50

I have some comments on tanks ect:

There already is a tank factory in the Ukraine and has been in operation since before WW II. Sadly, it's in Kharkiv.

I understand the Ukrainians want 10 Brigades equipted with modern western battle tanks. They are getting from what I have read enough Leopard II for 2 Battalions, Leopard Is for 6 or 7 battalions, a company of Chalengers as for the US M-1s with luck they should have enough for a battalion but they most likely won't arrive until late this year or next year.

WW II lend lease to the USSR dataa:
22 Jun 41 Germans invade the USSR
31 Aug 41 the first convoy of LL supplies and equipment arrives at Archangel Operation Dervish
Oct 41 LL fighters in action
Dec 41 LL tanks in action

WW II PM Churchill wrote memos "Action this day" in the Ukraine war you have:

Political dithering worse than the appears of the 1930s
We must not provk Putin
This will escalate the war (like sending the Ukrainians 50 AMX-10 armored cars is escalating the war the fools called them tanks!?)
It will take too long to train the Ukrainians (This is most likely going to be a long war.)
The bridges in the Ukraine can't carry western tanks (Good staff and engineer work will handle this problem)

Gooner1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Gooner1 » 27 Mar 2023 22:56

Equipment of one of the newly raised Brigades, I gather

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Be a shame, I think, if the Marder, perhaps the weakest of the Western IFVs Ukraine is getting, is paired with Challenger, perhaps the strongest tank the Ukrainians are getting

Tom Peters
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Tom Peters » 28 Mar 2023 00:51

ljadw wrote:
27 Mar 2023 20:15
Tom Peters wrote:
25 Mar 2023 00:30
Interesting claims about the inability of RU AFV factories to produce at full speed:

https://twitter.com/pati_marins64/statu ... 2Fpage-354

This is uncorroborated, but might explain the trend to using T-62 and T-54/55.

Mad Dog
To produce at full speed does not mean that more tanks can be committed :to use more tanks, crew is also needed,and technicians, ammunition, fuel,spare parts, infantry and artillery as protection, ...
Indeed, a whole slew of items would be necessary to use a tank at full capacity. I would assume there are plenty of spare parts available for the T-54/55 in the boneyards. Ammunition ? Not so sure there given the age.

Mad Dog

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 28 Mar 2023 03:34

newer production guided artillery shell being used in Ukraine against armor

122-mm guided projectile "Kitolov-2M" footage

https://vk.com/milinfolive?w=wall-123538639_3534077

https://en.kalashnikovgroup.ru/catalog/ ... kitolov-2m

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 28 Mar 2023 05:06

The exact statements of Putin and Medvedev (who is the 'Speer' of the war effort):

President Vladimir Putin, who, in an interview with Russian television on March 25, said: “[Western] arsonists plan to send 420-440 tanks to Ukraine. During this time, we will produce new ones and modernize over 1,600 existing ones. The total number of Russian tanks will exceed three times the number of tanks in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Even more than three times.”

“Our enemies believed that our industry would choke, that is, we would spend everything—these were their endless conversations. “We ran out of shells, ran out of tanks, ran out of rockets,” etc.

We will make 1,500 tanks alone this year,” Dmitry Medvedev said in an interview with Russian news agencies and users of the social network VK.

“The military-industrial complex has become hot, it works actively, most enterprises (I’m talking about this firsthand, but because I drive around them) work in three shifts, they work, as they say, from wheels - they directly give everything to the troops, produce the most modern Russian types of weapons, and even in a situation where they are really trying to deprive us of components, cut off oxygen in certain areas,” Medvedev said.

ljadw
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by ljadw » 28 Mar 2023 06:48

Tom Peters wrote:
28 Mar 2023 00:51
ljadw wrote:
27 Mar 2023 20:15
Tom Peters wrote:
25 Mar 2023 00:30
Interesting claims about the inability of RU AFV factories to produce at full speed:

https://twitter.com/pati_marins64/statu ... 2Fpage-354

This is uncorroborated, but might explain the trend to using T-62 and T-54/55.

Mad Dog
To produce at full speed does not mean that more tanks can be committed :to use more tanks, crew is also needed,and technicians, ammunition, fuel,spare parts, infantry and artillery as protection, ...
Indeed, a whole slew of items would be necessary to use a tank at full capacity. I would assume there are plenty of spare parts available for the T-54/55 in the boneyards. Ammunition ? Not so sure there given the age.

Mad Dog
That's why the boasting on both sides about the quality of the tanks and the number of tanks they can produce are only empty claims .
It is very unlikely that countless crews are waiting on the arrival of tanks ( or the opposite ) and I see that no one on both sides has been able to give us the times needed to produce tanks and to train the crews and technicians .
And,not all tanks that are produced can be used at the front ,as a number must be reserved for the training of crews and technicians .
And to train crews and technicians, you need additional instructors and where do you find them ?At the front .You can't use newly trained crews to train other crews .

Gooner1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Gooner1 » 28 Mar 2023 12:52


Gooner1
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Gooner1 » 28 Mar 2023 20:17

Image/

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Yuri
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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Yuri » 28 Mar 2023 21:46

Gooner1 wrote:
28 Mar 2023 20:17
Image/
There are a lot of proverbs in the Russian language, for almost all occasions.
One of the ancient proverbs is this:
Не похваляйся едучи на рать, похваляйся едучи с рати.
the translation is something like this:
Don't brag when you go to battle, brag when you go from battle.

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Re: The end of tanks as we know it?

Post by Cult Icon » 28 Mar 2023 21:54

That meme is made up from someone who thinks that the war in Ukraine is 'world of tanks'.

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