Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Cult Icon » 04 Apr 2022 14:34

Reigo2 wrote:
04 Apr 2022 14:26
Well, all this Nazi-stuff and denazification is basically a concept based on the Soviet era. But i understand you want military concepts.
Yes...

War crimes in the Russo-Ukrainian War

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=263739

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Gooner1 » 04 Apr 2022 14:42

Cult Icon wrote:
04 Apr 2022 14:22
They sent a second wave of "10,000" Chechens March 30th.
Probably best not to believe anything the Russians are saying.

The Chechens fighting for Russia seem to have similar combat skills to that of the Dirlewanger Brigade.

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Cult Icon » 04 Apr 2022 14:46

Gooner1 wrote:
04 Apr 2022 14:42

Probably best not to believe anything the Russians are saying.

The Chechens fighting for Russia seem to have similar combat skills to that of the Dirlewanger Brigade.
I should believe you then? :lol:

Image

The Chechens are in the southeast.

Second Grozny rally. There are more Chechen National Guard forces being sent into the Ukraine. :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4C-EM5YA3Q&t=280s

Russia has over 300,000 National Guard personnel.

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Gooner1 » 04 Apr 2022 15:15

Cult Icon wrote:
04 Apr 2022 14:46

Image

The Chechens are in the southeast.
Mariupol 2022

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Warsaw 1944

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Cult Icon » 20 Apr 2022 01:33

I have heard from some analysts that some Russian opinions about the war are that the Russian army was fighting too much like they did in Syria, these tactics were not effective, and as weeks passed they started to more and more fight in the Cold war style, and dig out Cold war era tactical manuals to help them.

Any links to this?

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Martin_from_Valhalla » 20 Apr 2022 03:23

Cult Icon wrote:
20 Apr 2022 01:33
I have heard from some analysts that some Russian opinions about the war are that the Russian army was fighting too much like they did in Syria, these tactics were not effective, and as weeks passed they started to more and more fight in the Cold war style, and dig out Cold war era tactical manuals to help them.

Any links to this?
Probably, these rumours are connected with the fact that Russian army shelling Mariupol is headed by General Mizintsev who annihilated Aleppo in Syria.

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Cult Icon » 20 Apr 2022 03:30

Martin_from_Valhalla wrote:
20 Apr 2022 03:23
Probably, these rumours are connected with the fact that Russian army shelling Mariupol is headed by General Mizintsev who annihilated Aleppo in Syria.
What I heard it is more about post-2008 conversion away from Cold War doctrine plus Syrian experience, then in recent weeks it is back to the Cold War doctrines.

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Martin_from_Valhalla » 20 Apr 2022 09:51

Some hours ago a video with officer from Azov battalion was released where he said that their hours in Mariupol are counted and they are outnumbered by Russians one to ten.

Nothing new in Russian tactics since WWII: overwhelming cannon fodder and artillery fire. And what's more, someone from Donbass complained yesterday that Russians are sending human waves of untrained recruites from Donetsk to uncover location of Ukrainian gun machines and artillery.

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by John Hilly » 20 Apr 2022 13:46

Lack of ammunition of food or both?
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"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Cult Icon » 20 Apr 2022 13:51

Martin_from_Valhalla wrote:
20 Apr 2022 09:51
Some hours ago a video with officer from Azov battalion was released where he said that their hours in Mariupol are counted and they are outnumbered by Russians one to ten.

Nothing new in Russian tactics since WWII: overwhelming cannon fodder and artillery fire. And what's more, someone from Donbass complained yesterday that Russians are sending human waves of untrained recruites from Donetsk to uncover location of Ukrainian gun machines and artillery.
In this war the Russians are extremely short on infantrymen.

The Ukr infantry/militia vastly outnumber the Russian, the Ukr put the "30,000" foreign legion with the territorial milita with many complaints. However the "cannon fodder" in the Russian appears to be the proxy troops, particuarly from DPR/LPR and the Chechen national guard, being deployed in urban fighting. The former has lost 25% of their forces at minimum based on the losses of what the DPR/LPR is reporting.

I last heard that recently they raised 5 regiments from eastern Ukraine, these milita are unlikely to bet top tier.

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Cult Icon » 20 Apr 2022 13:58

John Hilly wrote:
20 Apr 2022 13:46
Lack of ammunition of food or both?
Who knows. However the use of chemical weapons is possible, like in beslan school massacre. It is imperative for the Ukr remnants to hold out as long as possible in order to prevent the release of Russian forces to support the Donbass battle. Likewise the Russians want to leave Mariupol as soon as they can.

The graphic you posted is made up by the Daily Mail.

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Cult Icon » 20 Apr 2022 17:52

some (tentative, unconfirmed) reports today that key Donbass cities of Popasna and Rubizhne completely fell to the Russians. In Rubizhne there are separatist militia and Chechens fighting there.

The Izyum bridgehead drama reminds me of a passage from Mellanthin (Panzer Battles) where he remarks that Soviet bridgeheads must be crushed as soon as possible or they will expand into an offensive. The Russians have gone to the offensive (North of the Donets, East of the Izyum salient), pushed the Ukr forces towards the Donets and will try to cross the river and link up with Russian formations south of the river.

Ukraine. Military Summary And Analysis 20.04.2022, comparison with 1942 and 1943 operations at the end, repeating history. He theorizes that the Russians will perform the same encirclement operation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u_F0JVAQaE

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Cult Icon » 21 Apr 2022 12:55

The Kremlin has declared Mariupol battle won, with no storming of the Azovstal. They want to starve out the defenders.

http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/68254

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Cult Icon » 23 Apr 2022 05:11

The Russians have a great superiority in artillery, armor, and airpower but their infantry is weaker than Ukraine, and massively outnumbered by several orders of magnitude. This makes their assaults clumsy and slow, as the very small Russian infantry screen relies on firepower to shred the Ukrainian defenders, while they advance slowly to mop them up. This results in a slow tactical advance and makes the execution of highly effective maneuver warfare a non-starter.

The problems that the dire shortage of infantry can cause remind me of the German forces, particuarly in 1943-1945. The use of artillery to continuously bleed opponents resembles the Allies in WW2. There is a lot of evidence that the Russians are extremely pressed for infantrymen, trying to grab them from a variety of sources, plus shifting units around.

The Russians are currently steadily advancing everyday in the Donbass under a curtain of firepower but final success in the Donbass depends on whether or not they have enough infantrymen left at the end to push out the Ukrainian JFO. A lot of their elite infantry units (Airborne, Naval, SOBR, etc.) that were massed West of Kyiv are still hidden in the rear, they will likely emerge later on. The Russians are also making small local gains in the southern front, which is much more quiet than the Donbass

I estimate that it will take 1-2 months to clear the Donbass, if the Russians have enough front-line combatants left to do it. If they run out before they clear the Donbass, Putin will have to declare war on Ukraine and this war may be fought into 2023. This possibility looks to be factored in as the Russian state-controlled media is becoming more aggressive in promoting the need to declare war.

I think the losses on the Ukrainian regular army at this point are very severe, and as the war continues the massive and poorly equipped/trained Ukrainian territorial militas, equipped with a lot of NATO donated equipment will gradually take more and more of the combat burden. The ability of the Ukrainian regular army to attack and take ground remains very low. The abilities of the territorial militas are even worse, but if morale remains high they can still be very hard to destroy due to how massive they are compared to the Russian infantry.

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Re: Soviet concepts present in the Russo-Ukrainian War?

Post by Cult Icon » 24 Apr 2022 03:41

Bingo.  The small solution is more likely than the much more ambitious option (from the Izyum salient) as the Russians are in the final stage of winning the battles for Popasna and Rubizhne. Lyman and/or Yampil are likely the next towns to be attacked. If the Russians pursue this goal than the Izyum salient can be see as a diversionary manuever, to draw many Ukrianian brigades towards it and soften up the decisive fighting to the East.

The  Russians appear to be racing against the clock, attacking with what they have rather than performing an operational pause.  Spring is here and as the days go by, more and more foilage will appear which will favor the defender.  

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgr ... t-april-23

"The objectives of Russian offensives around the Izyum-Donetsk City salient are unclear. Russian forces may seek to reach the Izyum-Debaltseve road along two or more axes to encircle a large concentration of Ukrainian forces and built-up areas. Ukrainian officials suggested on April 23 that Russian forces near Rubizhne and Popasna may seek to encircle the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area rather than pursue the deeper envelopment."

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