Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Cult Icon » 07 Apr 2022 14:50

To add it is unfortunate that Ukrainian military/gov't press releases are considered reliable primary sources in the West. I have been reading some of it everyday and it is half facts, half propaganda (made up stories, exaggerations and unverified claims aimed at raising/sustaining Ukrainian combat morale and lowering those of their enemy). It is possible that their press releases are much less reliable than the Russian MOD ones.

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Yuri » 07 Apr 2022 15:00

Reigo2 wrote:
07 Apr 2022 11:22
Yuri wrote:
07 Apr 2022 11:04
Incomplete information is a kind of vile lie.
Yuri, thank you for demonstrating this kind of self-criticism! I was already afraid that when you talked about "famous Russian military TV journalist" Semyon Pegov you at the same wanted to hide (to provide us incomplete information) why he is famous. A Google search reveals that Pegov is famous as an active Russian propaganda worker who is highly likely curated by a special service (usually "military journalists" are GRU affiliates).

Who knows, may be Pegov is right about the situation in Mariupol. But it wasn't initially a honest move from you, Yuri, to hide that Pegov has been caught of spreading fakes: https://fip.am/en/18317

Background on WarGonzo being close to Russian state and GRU
https://n01r.com/wargonzos-semen-pegov- ... back-door/
Alas, dear Reigo2 from Estonian, I must tell you straight out, without embellishment, you will excuse me for this Russian directness, but your attempt to slander Semyon Pegov failed.

1. Pegov is reporting from the battlefield and, therefore, there is always a chance of getting injured or dying. This fact can be verified by any inhabitant of the earth whole brain have at least several zones that have not yet been affected by the poisonous fumes of Western propaganda. Dozens of interesting video reports by Pegov posted on the Internet.

2. Is Pegov an agent of the "GRU" or Pegov is not an agent of the "GRU", only the "GRU" and Pegov can answer this question correctly. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else can claim this, including the special services of different countries that have made every effort to find incriminating evidence on Pegov, but have not found even a hint of his involvement in the "GRU".
The fact that Pegov conducts video reports directly from the battlefield indicates that he is not involved in the GRU.
Anyone whose brain is not completely affected by the poisonous fumes of Western propaganda should understand that the GRU will not put the life of its employee at constant risk for the sake of obtaining those video frames that we see in Pegov's reports.
Ask yourself an elementary question - what is the value of the information obtained by the GRU employee Pegov on the battlefield?
here's what's valuable for the GRU in those video reports that Pegov shoots?

3. Further, in confirmation of your speculation that Pegov is a GRU agent, you gave a link to the iformation-fecal pit. Dear, perhaps your nose has been dulled by frequent communication with such information sewage and you do not feel the disgusting stench they emit. Obviously, your nose is dulled.
But please have pity on us. here We're not all immune to the stink , like you.

4. Finally. Suppose your speculation are correct and Pegov is really a GRU agent. However, you yourself admit that Pegov gives the correct information here. And in other cases, his video information is correct. So what?
For you, reliable information coming from a GRU agent should be rejected? So what is it?
For me, for example, reliable information coming from a CIA agent will not cease to be reliable.

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Reigo2 » 07 Apr 2022 15:03

Yuri, the fact is that Pegov has published fakes. And the fact is that you omitted this information, Yuri. What a vile lie from your side.

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Reigo2 » 07 Apr 2022 15:08

Cult Icon wrote:
07 Apr 2022 14:50
To add it is unfortunate that Ukrainian military/gov't press releases are considered reliable primary sources in the West. I have been reading some of it everyday and it is half facts, half propaganda (made up stories, exaggerations and unverified claims aimed at raising/sustaining Ukrainian combat morale and lowering those of their enemy). It is possible that their press releases are much less reliable than the Russian MOD ones.
I'm not sure that they are considered reliable primary sources. Can you quote somebody has expressed this kind of evaluation? They are indeed preferred sources. Probably because the information there is nicer to hear, so to say. And Russian MOD releases are nothing special either.

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Cult Icon » 07 Apr 2022 15:17

Reigo2 wrote:
07 Apr 2022 15:08
I'm not sure that they are considered reliable primary sources. Can you quote somebody has expressed this kind of evaluation? They are indeed preferred sources. Probably because the information there is nicer to hear, so to say. And Russian MOD releases are nothing special either.
Check out the hawkish/neoconservative research group (ISW) sources, mostly Ukrianian. ISW has been an opinion leader for this conflict (US). Also the Ukrianian military's website. At this point I dismiss all Ukrainian claims of Russian forces outside of unit identification and positions. In general the US media has a very distorted impression of the actual military situation, it is literally repeating Ukrianian propaganda as they are using them as their sources.

MOD releases appear to have less propaganda. The Russian propaganda is just as easy to dismiss.

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Yuri » 07 Apr 2022 15:19

Reigo2 wrote:
07 Apr 2022 15:03
Yuri, the fact is that Pegov has published fakes. And the fact is that you omitted this information, Yuri. What a vile lie from your side.
Dear Reigo2, I was sure that you would write something like that. and that's why I prepared this post in advance.

Dear Reigo2, In the case of false information about the liberation of Kharkov from Pegov, this is not a fake, but a mistake that Pegov immediately corrected when he saw that he was wrong.
Only the one who does nothing is not mistaken. The ability to admit your mistakes is a virtue, but a disadvantage.
Anyone, including me, can make mistakes.

Fake is not only false information.
Fake is the deliberate placement of false information to achieve an unscrupulous goal.
Here's the case with Bucha, it's a pure fake.
Last edited by Yuri on 07 Apr 2022 15:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Reigo2 » 07 Apr 2022 15:24

Cult Icon wrote:
07 Apr 2022 15:17
Check out the hawkish/neoconservative research group (ISW) sources, mostly Ukrianian. ISW has been an opinion leader for this conflict (US). Also the Ukrianian military's website. At this point I dismiss all Ukrainian claims of Russian forces outside of unit identification and positions. In general the US media has a very distorted impression of the actual military situation, it is literally repeating Ukrianian propaganda as they are using them as their sources.

MOD releases appear to have less propaganda. The Russian propaganda is just as easy to dismiss.
Still: considered as reliable primary sources?? They are using sources what they have/preffer (and Russian resources release not too much usable information for drawing maps etc - they are trying to keep secrets too). I suspect that serious researchers/commentators understand that there are possible propaganda plus fog of war element there. And so to say ordinary (incompetent) journalists just fulfill their task - saying something they have read from somewhere to get their pay in the end of the month.

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Cult Icon » 07 Apr 2022 15:29

If you read the ISW daily reports the group writes like they believe everything the Ukr general staff tells them.

Unfortunately their opinions hold weight, the ISW reports are being read by the public/journalists alike and presented as factual and reliable.

The Ukr general staff are using the press releases to craft a specific narrative for the war, from the first days.

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Yuri » 07 Apr 2022 15:38

Reigo2 wrote:
07 Apr 2022 15:24
Cult Icon wrote:
07 Apr 2022 15:17
Check out the hawkish/neoconservative research group (ISW) sources, mostly Ukrianian. ISW has been an opinion leader for this conflict (US). Also the Ukrianian military's website. At this point I dismiss all Ukrainian claims of Russian forces outside of unit identification and positions. In general the US media has a very distorted impression of the actual military situation, it is literally repeating Ukrianian propaganda as they are using them as their sources.

MOD releases appear to have less propaganda. The Russian propaganda is just as easy to dismiss.
Still: considered as reliable primary sources?? They are using sources what they have/preffer (and Russian resources release not too much usable information for drawing maps etc - they are trying to keep secrets too). I suspect that serious researchers/commentators understand that there are possible propaganda plus fog of war element there. And so to say ordinary (incompetent) journalists just fulfill their task - saying something they have read from somewhere to get their pay in the end of the month.
No one can give absolutely reliable information, except for the operational department of the General Staff of the Ukrainian Armed Forces or the Armed Forces of Russia.
Russians have an advantage over Europeans and Americans in that Russians on Ukraine have close relatives and friends from whom they can receive information. The telephone connection is valid. Half of the population in the border areas has on Ukraine/in Russia or parents, or children or siblings. If we take into account cousins or uncles / aunts, then every Russian has a relative on Ukraine.
This also applies to me.

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Reigo2 » 07 Apr 2022 15:44

Cult Icon wrote:
07 Apr 2022 15:29
If you read the ISW daily reports the group writes like they believe everything the Ukr general staff tells them.

Unfortunately their opinions hold weight, the ISW reports are being read by the public/journalists alike and presented as factual and reliable.

The Ukr general staff are using the press releases to craft a specific narrative for the war, from the first days.
So the West has now become ISW? I don't know about ISW. If their method contains ignoring Russian information which clearly contradicts Ukrainian information (and I'm not taking into account the Bucha event - the Russian narrative has not been ignored but actually debunked in the West) then this is bad. But my impression is that the Russian side does not release much information which allows to make any significant changes to the analysis.

I don't know what specific false narrative by the Ukrainians you are keeping in mind, but trust me - the Russian narrative is not only specific but also a really moronic and vile one. I understand that you are worried about US taxpayers wallet being emptied in WW3 but this is not the Ukrainians fault but the fault of some other country which actions you seemingly try to a bit whitewash here (maybe subconsciously) and waiting for her quick victory. Putin does not care about US taxpayers worries, trust me.

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Cult Icon » 07 Apr 2022 15:52

The US media coverage of the war- in its military aspects- is very consistent with the distorted Ukrainian propaganda narrative, that's what I'm saying.

This is hardly something worth arguing over, just go to any US news site to see it in action.

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Reigo2 » 07 Apr 2022 16:00

But what exactly is this distorted Ukrainian propaganda narrative which leads West apparently into false decisions? And what is the balanced view then? And what are the decisions which should be made according to this balanced view in your opinion?

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Yuri » 07 Apr 2022 16:02

Reigo2 wrote:
07 Apr 2022 15:44
I don't know what specific false narrative by the Ukrainians you are keeping in mind, but trust me - the Russian narrative is not only specific but also a really moronic and vile one. I understand that you are worried about US taxpayers wallet being emptied in WW3 but this is not the Ukrainians fault but the fault of some other country which actions you seemingly try to a bit whitewash here (maybe subconsciously) and waiting for her quick victory. Putin does not care about US taxpayers worries, trust me.
And what makes you so special that we have to believe you?
You have a license for sinlessness from the Lord our God, the of Jesus Christ/Allah/Buddha?
No, let me not believe you without looking back.
You cannot claim to be sinless.
Moreover, you are from Estonia, where Russian TV channels have been banned for many years.
Or, for example, this resident of Estonia tells how stupid Danish journalists are in the problems of Ukraine.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3sJQefdCLs

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Reigo2 » 07 Apr 2022 16:09

Yuri wrote:
07 Apr 2022 16:02
Reigo2 wrote:
07 Apr 2022 15:44
I don't know what specific false narrative by the Ukrainians you are keeping in mind, but trust me - the Russian narrative is not only specific but also a really moronic and vile one. I understand that you are worried about US taxpayers wallet being emptied in WW3 but this is not the Ukrainians fault but the fault of some other country which actions you seemingly try to a bit whitewash here (maybe subconsciously) and waiting for her quick victory. Putin does not care about US taxpayers worries, trust me.
And what makes you so special that we have to believe you?
You have a license for sinlessness from the Lord our God, the of Jesus Christ/Allah/Buddha?
No, let me not believe you without looking back.
You cannot claim to be sinless.
Moreover, you are from Estonia, where Russian TV channels have been banned for many years.
Or, for example, this resident of Estonia tells how stupid Danish journalists are in the problems of Ukraine.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3sJQefdCLs
Russian warship... (you know the rest, Yuri).

[Russian TV channels were banned from cable networks this year because of agressive war propaganda.]

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Re: Chechens in Russo-Ukrainian war

Post by Reigo2 » 07 Apr 2022 16:17

And if anybody is interested in the parallel Universe called Russian media, this is a nice resource: https://twitter.com/francska1
Goebbels would be jelaous.
Last edited by Reigo2 on 07 Apr 2022 16:19, edited 1 time in total.

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