Towed arty

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 11 Apr 2022 07:37

Militia of the DPR. 2015. Fire platoon of D-30 howitzers. Shooting practice. Here the distance between the guns is about 40-50 meters, which corresponds to the requirement of the shooting instruction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn8TXIFdxzw


The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
2011 (that is, before the removal of the D-30 howitzer from service from the Ground Forces). Training in howitzer shooting in the trenches.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4q2AnzZgA4
As you can see, if the trench for the howitzer is done properly, then it can only be destroyed by a direct hit with a sufficiently powerful projectile.

The Armed Forces of Belarus.
2020. Airborne troops. D-30 howitzer battery shooting training
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U_Y7ZvSS9A

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 11 Apr 2022 08:36

Towed artillery 152 mm guns.

The Armed Forces of Belarus.
2015. Battery 152 mm howitzer Msta-B.
Shooting practice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fta9nuOgtGY
Shooting practice in winter conditions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKgb_oJf0Qc

Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Trans-Baikal Military District.
Battery 152 mm howitzer Msta-B. Shooting practice in winter conditions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7JhjhNeSNU

P.S.
Msta is the name of a river known from the military history of Russia in the Novgorod region.
The Msta flows into Lake Ilmen near the city of Veliky (Grand/Gross) Novgorod.

Msta-B (Buksiruemaya = Towed)
In English it would be Msta-T

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Kingfish
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Kingfish » 12 Apr 2022 01:44

Yuri wrote:
11 Apr 2022 07:37
As you can see, if the trench for the howitzer is done properly, then it can only be destroyed by a direct hit with a sufficiently powerful projectile.
But does it have to be destroyed?

Would the battery commander elect to sit tight if a drone was spotted circling the gun line?
The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.
~Babylonian Proverb

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 12 Apr 2022 06:36

Kingfish wrote:
12 Apr 2022 01:44
Yuri wrote:
11 Apr 2022 07:37
As you can see, if the trench for the howitzer is done properly, then it can only be destroyed by a direct hit with a sufficiently powerful projectile.
But does it have to be destroyed?
If you don't destroy the enemy, then the enemy will destroy you.
Kingfish wrote:
12 Apr 2022 01:44
Would the battery commander elect to sit tight if a drone was spotted circling the gun line?
Stealth is the main advantage of the drone.
If the drone is detected visually, then we can confidently say that the remaining time of its existence is very small.
The detected drone is an excellent target, because it is slow or even hangs in place and has no means of protection.

If, at the sight of a drone, the battery commander folds his hands and sits down, then a court martial awaits him, demotes him to the ranks and sends him on a "business trip" for three months to a penal battalion. In any case, in the RKKA (Workers' and Peasants' Red Army), which since 1946 became known as the SA (Soviet Army, I served in the Soviet Army), it was exactly like that. The guilty officers were sent to the penal battalion for three months as privates, while the guilty privates, sergeants and junior lieutenants were sent to the penal companies for the same period.

P.S.
I do not know how the situation is in this regard in today's Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
Today's Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, as well as the Armed Forces of Ukraine and as the armed forces of the United States and as the Armed Forces of all other European countries (NATO and non-NATO) are the armed forces of capitalists.

The Workers' and Peasants' Red Army (and its successor, the Soviet Army) defended the interests of the toiling masses (Workers, Peasants and Engineers).

Capitalists use their armed forces to increase (or maintain) the rate of return of capital.

With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Workers' and Peasants' Red Army ceased to exist. With the disappearance of the Workers' and Peasants' Red Army, the working masses (Workers, Peasants and Engineers) were left without protection.
Capitalists have dramatically increased the degree of exploitation of the working people, as a result, we see that after the Red Army left the scene, the rich became richer, and the poor poorer.
This is particularly evident in the example of the situation of the working masses in the capitalist Russian Federation and in the capitalist United States.

P.P.S.

1. The cost of manufacturing the D-30 howitzer is $52,000;
2. The Javelin anti-tank complex, according to the Internet, is $600,000 (a set of six missiles for the United States) and $1,400,000 for export.
Thus, a battery of D-30 howitzers (six howitzers) costs about half as much as a Javelin kit.
3. A 152 mm guided Krasnopol projectile costs $50,000, that is, one projectile costs almost as much as a D-30 howitzer.
Last edited by Yuri on 12 Apr 2022 07:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Ironmachine
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Ironmachine » 12 Apr 2022 07:18

Yuri wrote:The Workers' and Peasants' Red Army (and its successor, the Soviet Army) defended the interests of the toiling masses (Workers, Peasants and Engineers).
Thank you, Yuri. There's othing better than starting your day with a good laugh! :lol:

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 12 Apr 2022 07:50

The advantage of conventional (towed) artillery as well as infantry is that these types of troops are all-season, all-weather, all-passable and everything all-.
In the two videos presented above, a battery of howitzers is firing in the rain, and it is clear that the cloud cover is low. I doubt that a drone can help in this weather. Imagine that it is night and it is snowing heavily.
No, artillery is the god of war, and infantry is its queen.
You will not replace Inf&Art with any ultra modern gadgets.

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 12 Apr 2022 08:10

Ironmachine wrote:
12 Apr 2022 07:18
Thank you, Yuri. There's othing better than starting your day with a good laugh! :lol:
Yes, you're welcome. I am always ready to help the suffering Spaniards.
No pasaran!

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Kingfish
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Kingfish » 12 Apr 2022 09:55

Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 06:36
If you don't destroy the enemy, then the enemy will destroy you.
Destroying the enemy comes in many forms, of which the physical destruction of men and machines is just one version.
In this case forcing the enemy to constantly redeploy his artillery assets - and thereby unable to support the front line troops - is a win even if no shots are fired.
Stealth is the main advantage of the drone.
If the drone is detected visually, then we can confidently say that the remaining time of its existence is very small.
The detected drone is an excellent target, because it is slow or even hangs in place and has no means of protection.
This assumes:
1) The enemy has the means to shoot down the drone.

2) The drone remains in place.
The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.
~Babylonian Proverb

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Kingfish
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Kingfish » 12 Apr 2022 10:07

Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 07:50
In the two videos presented above, a battery of howitzers is firing in the rain, and it is clear that the cloud cover is low. I doubt that a drone can help in this weather. Imagine that it is night and it is snowing heavily.
Rain and low cloud cover didn't seem to be a problem with this drone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcYOjbyttvM
The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.
~Babylonian Proverb

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Ironmachine
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Ironmachine » 12 Apr 2022 10:19

Yuri wrote:Yes, you're welcome. I am always ready to help the suffering Spaniards.
I'm not suffering, but thanks anyway. Maybe you can offer yourself to help the suffering Ukrainians, but somehow I suspect that your way of ending their suffering would not be to their liking.
Yuri wrote:No pasaran!
Is that what the Ukrainians are crying out?
If this is a reference to the SCW, I have to tell you that unfortunately, despite the (well-paid) help from the Workers' and Peasants' (were there no engineers in the ranks?) Red Army, ¡pasaron!.
But what's really surprising is to see a proud ex-member of the Soviet Army using a slogan taken from the the armed forces of capitalists!

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 12 Apr 2022 11:12

Kingfish wrote:
12 Apr 2022 10:07
Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 07:50
In the two videos presented above, a battery of howitzers is firing in the rain, and it is clear that the cloud cover is low. I doubt that a drone can help in this weather. Imagine that it is night and it is snowing heavily.
Rain and low cloud cover didn't seem to be a problem with this drone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcYOjbyttvM
An attempt to open a video clip gives this result.
Ukraine War: Dramatic drone footage shows Russian convoy 'ambush
Video is not available
The owner of the video has banned its viewing in your country.
10 Mar. 2022
16,758,235 views
Sky News


If the owner of the video clip is Sky News, then it is unclear why the video clip was banned from being shown in Russia. What's the big deal?
Access to the official Sky News website is free. The videos listed on this site are opened. But, I get a refusal to view using the link you provided.

From the title, it can be understood that the video is not about towed artillery in combat positions, but some kind of convoy that was ambushed.
If this video is not about towed artillery, then there is no need to discuss it, regardless of whether there was rain and low clouds or there was bright sun and cloudless sky.
You suggested discussing towed artillery and its value/necessity at this historical stage, as well as the possibility of operating in the conditions of the use of drones.

But if there is something valuable in the video clip you have submitted for the topic "towed artillery", then it would be desirable to watch it somehow.

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 12 Apr 2022 11:25

Kingfish wrote:
12 Apr 2022 09:55
Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 06:36
If you don't destroy the enemy, then the enemy will destroy you.
Destroying the enemy comes in many forms, of which the physical destruction of men and machines is just one version.
In this case forcing the enemy to constantly redeploy his artillery assets - and thereby unable to support the front line troops - is a win even if no shots are fired.
An artillery gun (art.platoon, art.battery) always, I emphasize once again always, should have several combat positions (one of them is called the main one and the rest are spare), this was before the appearance of drones, and it is not clear why you think that with the advent of drones, there should be only one position. The guns are constantly moving from one combat position to another.
In addition, several false positions and false guns in such positions are necessarily created.

The trained gun crew of the gun, upon arrival at the combat position, opens fire on the target in five minutes, even if the target is fifteen kilometers away from the gun's combat position.
Last edited by Yuri on 12 Apr 2022 11:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Kingfish
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Kingfish » 12 Apr 2022 11:34

Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 11:12
If the owner of the video clip is Sky News, then it is unclear why the video clip was banned from being shown in Russia. What's the big deal?
Access to the official Sky News website is free. The videos listed on this site are opened. But, I get a refusal to view using the link you provided.
You need to take that up with your countrymen.
From the title, it can be understood that the video is not about towed artillery in combat positions, but some kind of convoy that was ambushed.
If this video is not about towed artillery, then there is no need to discuss it, regardless of whether there was rain and low clouds or there was bright sun and cloudless sky.
You suggested discussing towed artillery and its value/necessity at this historical stage, as well as the possibility of operating in the conditions of the use of drones.
The video refutes your claim that drones would be of little help in rain and low cloud cover. In this case the drone not only tracks the Russian armored column, but hovers over as the ambush plays out.
The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.
~Babylonian Proverb

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Kingfish
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Kingfish » 12 Apr 2022 11:36

Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 11:25
An artillery gun (art.platoon, art.battery) always, I emphasize once again always, should have several combat positions (one of them is called the main one and the rest are spare), this was before the appearance of drones, and it is not clear why you think that with the advent of drones, there should be only one position. The guns are constantly moving from one combat position to another.
In addition, several false positions and false guns in such positions are necessarily created.
At no time did I ever claim, or mention, one firing position. That there are several is beside the point.
The gods do not deduct from a man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.
~Babylonian Proverb

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 12 Apr 2022 11:50

Kingfish wrote:
12 Apr 2022 11:34
Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 11:12
If the owner of the video clip is Sky News, then it is unclear why the video clip was banned from being shown in Russia. What's the big deal?
Access to the official Sky News website is free. The videos listed on this site are opened. But, I get a refusal to view using the link you provided.
You need to take that up with your countrymen.
Alas, in this case, only Sky News can help if it lifts its ban on showing this video clip in Russia.

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