Towed arty

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Helmut0815
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Helmut0815 » 10 Jun 2022 20:59

The Artillery War in the Donbas Ukraine Relying Heavily on Heavy Weapons from the West
The war in Ukraine has morphed into an artillery battle, with Kyiv even more reliant than ever on heavy weaponry from the West. The country no longer has high hopes for significant support from Germany.

Image
Full article in english language: https://www.spiegel.de/international/wo ... c66ee50556


regards


Helmut

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 24 Aug 2022 08:37

@ Cult Icon

I believe that it is more appropriate to place information about the structure of artillery management in the Soviet motorized rifle regiment in the branch where artillery is discussed.
P034 Regimental Staff (from fm100-2-1)(_).jpg
The composition of the artillery armament service: the Head of the artillery armament service (with the rank of major), two deputies (both with the rank of captain: one was engaged in armament, and the second in ammunition), the head of the ammunition and armament warehouse (with the rank of foreman or ensign), senior clerk (with the rank of corporal) and storekeeper (with the rank of private).
I am personally familiar with this because for two months (from the end of November 1972 to the end of January 1973) I temporarily served as a senior clerk in this department. The senior clerk of this service was demobilized in November 1972, and the new one has not yet arrived. The head of the service appealed to the commander of our 9th motorized rifle company with a request to transfer me to this temporarily to help. He accidentally found out that I studied at the institute before serving in the army, I can quickly multiply three-digit numbers in my mind, as well as write well, draw diagrams and graphs.
During this period, I lived in the premises of an anti-tank ATGM battery (in this battery there were ten combat vehicles of type 9P110, missile control via a 3000 m long cable). The premises of the ATGM battery were in the same building where there was an artillery battery of 122-mm M-30 howitzers, as well as the headquarters of the chief of artillery of the regiment. Chief of Artillery with the rank of lieutenant colonel.

The chief of artillery of the regiment is subordinate to:
- artillery battery of 122 mm howitzers (6 howitzers were initially M-30, and then D-30);
-ATGM battery (10 9P110 combat vehicles);
- three mortar batteries in motorized rifle battalions (3x6=18 120 mm mortars PM-43);
- three anti-tank platoons in motorized rifle battalions (3x3=9 90 mm anti-tank grenade launchers of the SPG-9 type);
If necessary, by order of the regimental commander, an anti-aircraft battery (2 23 mm 4-barrel combat vehicles of the ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" type and 2 23 mm 2-barrel ZU-23-2 guns) was transferred to the subordination of the chief of artillery for use in the interests of ground defense
In addition, in specific cases, the chief of artillery controlled the fire of tanks of the tank battalion of the regiment (forty T-55 tanks with a 100 mm cannon). For example, infantry in the offensive crossed to the other side of the river, and tanks, due to the lack of fords and crossing facilities, cannot do this.

After my work in the artillery armament service ended, the Chief of Staff ordered me to use my drawing skills in the operational department, where operational maps were being reissued at that time. It was a very large number of topographic maps (scale 1:50,000 and 1:25,000) and diagrams (scale from 1:20,000 to 1:200). Maps and diagrams covered the territory from the eastern border of the Czech Republic (where our regiment was permanently located) to the German-French border (including the cities of Nuremberg and Munich). I worked with maps and diagrams in the operations department for about three weeks, while spending the night in the ATGM battery room. Since top secret information was displayed on the maps and diagrams, the head of the special department talked to me about the rules for maintaining military secrecy (this is not the KGB, as indicated on the American scheme).

P.S.
By the way, in the reconnaissance company of the regiment there was a platoon of floating tanks of 3 PT-76 tanks with a 76 mm cannon, but I can't remember anything about the order of using these tanks as artillery pieces.
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Cult Icon » 27 Aug 2022 16:12

^
Thanks for the insight

gunner says that he fires 40-50 rounds a day in the Ukraine:

6 months of fighting in Ukraine, the crew of the Msta-B howitzer of Russia


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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 28 Aug 2022 07:54

Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 07:50
The advantage of conventional (towed) artillery as well as infantry is that these types of troops are all-season, all-weather, all-passable and everything all-.
In the two videos presented above, a battery of howitzers is firing in the rain, and it is clear that the cloud cover is low. I doubt that a drone can help in this weather. Imagine that it is night and it is snowing heavily.
No, artillery is the god of war, and infantry is its queen.
You will not replace Inf&Art with any ultra modern gadgets.
Nonsense. These ultra modern gadgets like drones are very effective as they make identifying targets much easier and makes your beloved artillery much more vulnerable to very precise weapons.

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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 28 Aug 2022 07:56

Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 11:25
Kingfish wrote:
12 Apr 2022 09:55
Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 06:36
If you don't destroy the enemy, then the enemy will destroy you.
Destroying the enemy comes in many forms, of which the physical destruction of men and machines is just one version.
In this case forcing the enemy to constantly redeploy his artillery assets - and thereby unable to support the front line troops - is a win even if no shots are fired.
An artillery gun (art.platoon, art.battery) always, I emphasize once again always, should have several combat positions (one of them is called the main one and the rest are spare), this was before the appearance of drones, and it is not clear why you think that with the advent of drones, there should be only one position. The guns are constantly moving from one combat position to another.
In addition, several false positions and false guns in such positions are necessarily created.

The trained gun crew of the gun, upon arrival at the combat position, opens fire on the target in five minutes, even if the target is fifteen kilometers away from the gun's combat position.
Drones will force you to move much more as the drone gives real time information. Just changing positions will not help as you need to go in hiding.

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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 28 Aug 2022 10:21

Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 13:06
Generally speaking, consider that the modern version of unmanned aerial vehicles (drones) this is something completely new wrong.
The first unmanned aerial vehicle appeared on June 5, 1783 and it was, as I hope you have already guessed, the balloon of the Montgolfier brothers. Well, then it went-it went, I won't tell you, you know everything well yourself.
During the Second World War, gas-filled balloons were actively used by artillery scouts.
A drone is unmanned and can loiter a long time. It is not easy detectable.

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 30 Aug 2022 10:28

Aida1 wrote:
28 Aug 2022 07:54
Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 07:50
The advantage of conventional (towed) artillery as well as infantry is that these types of troops are all-season, all-weather, all-passable and everything all-.
In the two videos presented above, a battery of howitzers is firing in the rain, and it is clear that the cloud cover is low. I doubt that a drone can help in this weather. Imagine that it is night and it is snowing heavily.
No, artillery is the god of war, and infantry is its queen.
You will not replace Inf&Art with any ultra modern gadgets.
Nonsense. These ultra modern gadgets like drones are very effective as they make identifying targets much easier and makes your beloved artillery much more vulnerable to very precise weapons.
Dear Mr. Aida1!
You so often begin your brief critical posts with the word "Nonsense" that soon you will be addressed not "Dear Mr. Aida1",
but "Dear Mr. Nonsense".
To speak briefly is a commendable quality.
As you know, brevity is the mother of talent.
But this will be true provided that a short statement is filled with deep meaning and vivid imagery.
At the same time, your brief statements (at least from those that I have read) look gray, boring, meaningless and do not give food for thought/are not of interest.
Sorry for speaking bluntly, cutting, so to speak, the truth of the uterus right in the eyes.

As you know, Comrade Stalin had the talent to express thoughts briefly, but at the same time, succinctly and figuratively. For example, the words of Comrade Stalin "Artillery is the God of War!" is a masterpiece, die, but you can't say better about the importance of artillery on the battlefield.
In Cyrillic, this is very brief:
"Артиллерия Бог войны!".
Let me rephrase a little one of Comrade Stalin's laconic statements in relation to your posts.
"You have taken the position of a laconic critic.
This position is very convenient, but rotten through and through."

Now to the point.
You persistently try to rank me among the cohort of "Opponents of the use of UAVs".
I don't find any reason for this.
I have never given any reason for accusations of such a serious crime anywhere.
The regulations of the infantry and artillery of the Soviet Army, which I studied when I served in the Army, as well as my senior military leaders continuously inspired me that enemy reconnaissance should be conducted continuously by all available means and methods. This is the law. Any deviation from this law is considered a grave crime.
I will be the last one who refuses to use such a convenient means as a UAV for reconnaissance (surveillance).
At the same time, if my subordinate commanders (officers and sergeants) use only UAVs for reconnaissance, but other available means of artillery reconnaissance will not be involved, then I will immediately send my subordinate officer (sergeant) to a penal battalion for three months.

However, here's a challenge for you.
Condition:
You have three means of intelligence.
1. Scout (soldier) with a walkie-talkie;

2. Radar complex of counter-battery warfare
(for example, such as "Zoopark-1M"
Zoopark-1M(1L260)_3.jpg
or ARTHUR
ARTHUR_radar_NASR_2021_in_Al_Qalail_(Qatar).jpg
or MAMBA(GB) or AN/TRQ-36/48 (USA) or others.

3. UAV.

You have been given a condition:
"One of these three means of intelligence will be withdrawn.
You have to choose for yourself which two funds will remain with you."

Which two means will you keep for yourself?
You have five seconds to think and the time has start.
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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 30 Aug 2022 15:09

Yuri wrote:
30 Aug 2022 10:28
Aida1 wrote:
28 Aug 2022 07:54
Yuri wrote:
12 Apr 2022 07:50
The advantage of conventional (towed) artillery as well as infantry is that these types of troops are all-season, all-weather, all-passable and everything all-.
In the two videos presented above, a battery of howitzers is firing in the rain, and it is clear that the cloud cover is low. I doubt that a drone can help in this weather. Imagine that it is night and it is snowing heavily.
No, artillery is the god of war, and infantry is its queen.
You will not replace Inf&Art with any ultra modern gadgets.
Nonsense. These ultra modern gadgets like drones are very effective as they make identifying targets much easier and makes your beloved artillery much more vulnerable to very precise weapons.
Dear Mr. Aida1!
You so often begin your brief critical posts with the word "Nonsense" that soon you will be addressed not "Dear Mr. Aida1",
but "Dear Mr. Nonsense".
To speak briefly is a commendable quality.
As you know, brevity is the mother of talent.
But this will be true provided that a short statement is filled with deep meaning and vivid imagery.
At the same time, your brief statements (at least from those that I have read) look gray, boring, meaningless and do not give food for thought/are not of interest.
Sorry for speaking bluntly, cutting, so to speak, the truth of the uterus right in the eyes.

As you know, Comrade Stalin had the talent to express thoughts briefly, but at the same time, succinctly and figuratively. For example, the words of Comrade Stalin "Artillery is the God of War!" is a masterpiece, die, but you can't say better about the importance of artillery on the battlefield.
In Cyrillic, this is very brief:
"Артиллерия Бог войны!".
Let me rephrase a little one of Comrade Stalin's laconic statements in relation to your posts.
"You have taken the position of a laconic critic.
This position is very convenient, but rotten through and through."

Now to the point.
You persistently try to rank me among the cohort of "Opponents of the use of UAVs".
I don't find any reason for this.
I have never given any reason for accusations of such a serious crime anywhere.
The regulations of the infantry and artillery of the Soviet Army, which I studied when I served in the Army, as well as my senior military leaders continuously inspired me that enemy reconnaissance should be conducted continuously by all available means and methods. This is the law. Any deviation from this law is considered a grave crime.
I will be the last one who refuses to use such a convenient means as a UAV for reconnaissance (surveillance).
At the same time, if my subordinate commanders (officers and sergeants) use only UAVs for reconnaissance, but other available means of artillery reconnaissance will not be involved, then I will immediately send my subordinate officer (sergeant) to a penal battalion for three months.

However, here's a challenge for you.
Condition:
You have three means of intelligence.
1. Scout (soldier) with a walkie-talkie;

2. Radar complex of counter-battery warfare
(for example, such as "Zoopark-1M"
Zoopark-1M(1L260)_3.jpg
or ARTHUR
ARTHUR_radar_NASR_2021_in_Al_Qalail_(Qatar).jpg
or MAMBA(GB) or AN/TRQ-36/48 (USA) or others.

3. UAV.

You have been given a condition:
"One of these three means of intelligence will be withdrawn.
You have to choose for yourself which two funds will remain with you."

Which two means will you keep for yourself?
You have five seconds to think and the time has start.
Fortunately, I do not suffer from the disease of spewing out a lot of words to say not much.
You did make comments which underplayed the danger of a drone for artillery.
When it has you in sight, changing position will not help you. It is possible you will not even be aware it is there so you need to take that possibility into account. If it is a killer drone, the danger is even greater.
Even the man on the ground with a walkie-talkie could use a very small drone instead of having to be somewhere where he has a good view. Ground forces will use micro drones for recce. So there are a lot of uses for drones.
I do not share the idea that artillery is the God of war. It is a supporting weapon, nothing more.

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 30 Aug 2022 15:20

Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 15:09
You did make comments which underplayed the danger of a drone for artillery.
I did not commit such a rash act.
It seemed to you.
When it seems necessary to cross yourself and the visions will disappear.

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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 30 Aug 2022 15:26

Yuri wrote:
30 Aug 2022 15:20
Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 15:09
You did make comments which underplayed the danger of a drone for artillery.
It seemed to you.
When it seems necessary to cross yourself and the visions will disappear.
There is no vision. You said what you said.
The USA has also delivered Harm missiles to the Ukraine which means that Russian counterbattery radar and air defense systems have become more vulnerable. So it is a bit simplistic to think that the drone will simply be shot down. Actually one could use drones also to make the air defense radars light up and kill them with HARM.
Sophisticated western weapons make life miserable for the russian army which makes one happy.

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 30 Aug 2022 15:53

Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 15:26
Yuri wrote:
30 Aug 2022 15:20
Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 15:09
You did make comments which underplayed the danger of a drone for artillery.
It seemed to you.
When it seems necessary to cross yourself and the visions will disappear.
There is no vision. You said what you said.
Since you evaluate my actions (words), then I know better whether these actions seem to you or not.
If you have not yet realized that it just seems to you, then the recommendations for you are the same - be baptized more often and the visions will surely disappear from you.

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 30 Aug 2022 16:33

Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 15:26
So it is a bit simplistic to think that the drone will simply be shot down. Actually one could use drones also to make the air defense radars light up and kill them with HARM.
Sophisticated western weapons make life miserable for the russian army which makes one happy.
HARM is HARM, and towed artillery is towed artillery. This is a completely different hypostasis.
If you have an itch in one place and really want to talk about HAMERS, then open a new branch and there will be a discussion.
No problems.
I have something to say about HARM and similar systems.
Judging by what you're writing here, you don't know anything yet.

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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 30 Aug 2022 16:50

Yuri wrote:
30 Aug 2022 16:33
Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 15:26
So it is a bit simplistic to think that the drone will simply be shot down. Actually one could use drones also to make the air defense radars light up and kill them with HARM.
Sophisticated western weapons make life miserable for the russian army which makes one happy.
HARM is HARM, and towed artillery is towed artillery. This is a completely different hypostasis.
If you have an itch in one place and really want to talk about HAMERS, then open a new branch and there will be a discussion.
No problems.
I have something to say about HARM and similar systems.
Judging by what you're writing here, you don't know anything yet.
If you mention the ability to shoot down drones and counterbattery r adars then i can mention weapons which can take these out or force to shut down the radars. These systems are also vulnerable to HIMARS. I do know what I am talking about. You seem to be stuck in a far away past.

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 30 Aug 2022 18:58

Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 16:50
Yuri wrote:
30 Aug 2022 16:33
Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 15:26
So it is a bit simplistic to think that the drone will simply be shot down. Actually one could use drones also to make the air defense radars light up and kill them with HARM.
Sophisticated western weapons make life miserable for the russian army which makes one happy.
HARM is HARM, and towed artillery is towed artillery. This is a completely different hypostasis.
If you have an itch in one place and really want to talk about HAMERS, then open a new branch and there will be a discussion.
No problems.
I have something to say about HARM and similar systems.
If you mention the ability to shoot down drones and counterbattery r adars then i can mention weapons which can take these out or force to shut down the radars. These systems are also vulnerable to HIMARS.
My dear friend, you can't.
As the Russians say: "You should separate the flies from the cutlets".
The counter-battery combat systems (which I showed) are an integral part of the equipment from the artillery instrumental reconnaissance battery (AIR battery), which is available in every artillery battalion/divizion/abteilung.
The artillery regiment has a AIR battalion/divizion/abteilung.
The equipment of this battalion is something that you never dreamed of.
As can be seen from your words, this is unknown to you.
So speaking of towed artillery, I had every right to talk about counter-battery warfare systems.

However, you did not answer the question - which two means of intelligence out of three will YOU keep for yourself.
Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 16:50
I do know what I am talking about. You seem to be stuck in a far away past.
This is my military specialty a infantryman and a artilleryman.
And in my civilian life, I was just engaged in a system for detecting, tracking and controlling the flight of rockets and spacecraft.

In particular, I worked in a group that built a landing strip and mounted the landing control system of the Buran spacecraft in automatic mode. The landing strip and landing control systems, which you can see in this video, are also my work.

15/11/1988
What a magnificent picture! Landing in automatic mode (Americans still don't have such a thing).
The deviation in the course (direction) was only half a meter (with an acceptable 6 meters). Stop at exactly the specified location. A masterpiece of engineering art performed by Soviet scientists, designers, engineers and builders. There is nothing like this to this day.



In my time, I carried out a lot of work on missile systems, anti-missile and anti-aircraft defense systems on the territory of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic.
I am not afraid to say that I know all the capabilities of Ukraine in terms of missile technology about the capabilities of anti-aircraft defense of this territory.
If you have a desire, then I can find a video on YouTube (when I watched it), where the device of the missile base on Ukraine is shown in detail, it is told and shown about missiles. At one time I did special work there.

You will no doubt have something to see.
This was only the USSR and the USA.
Moreover, according to the American military, who had the opportunity to visit this base, everything was more perfect for the USSR.
In particular, the Soviet missiles were in 12-second readiness for launch. In 12 seconds, the 120-ton cover of the rocket shaft opened and the rocket could immediately launch.
In the Soviet rocket, the gyroscopic systems located in the head of the rockets rotated constantly at a speed of 60,000 revolutions per minute.
On the other hand, American rockets needed half an hour to prepare the rocket for launch. Since American missiles did not solve the problem of ensuring constant rotation of gyroscopic systems.

By the way, if you wish, you can visit the place where this base was located, everything is preserved there, but of course it is neutralized, it is used as a museum.
This area is still in the territory controlled by the Kiev regime.

I am a very competent boy in many areas, even in the fight against the energy mafia.
By the way, in the course of my struggle with this mafia, I became known throughout Russia and in many other countries formed as a result of the collapse of the USSR, in particular, the newspapers of Kharkov, Zhytomyr and other cities of Ukraine wrote about this struggle of mine.
As they say in Russia: "Don't put your finger in my mouth, I'll bite it off right away."

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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 30 Aug 2022 19:22

Yuri wrote:
30 Aug 2022 18:58
Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 16:50
Yuri wrote:
30 Aug 2022 16:33
Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 15:26
So it is a bit simplistic to think that the drone will simply be shot down. Actually one could use drones also to make the air defense radars light up and kill them with HARM.
Sophisticated western weapons make life miserable for the russian army which makes one happy.
HARM is HARM, and towed artillery is towed artillery. This is a completely different hypostasis.
If you have an itch in one place and really want to talk about HAMERS, then open a new branch and there will be a discussion.
No problems.
I have something to say about HARM and similar systems.
If you mention the ability to shoot down drones and counterbattery r adars then i can mention weapons which can take these out or force to shut down the radars. These systems are also vulnerable to HIMARS.
My dear friend, you can't.
As the Russians say: "You should separate the flies from the cutlets".
The counter-battery combat systems (which I showed) are an integral part of the equipment from the artillery instrumental reconnaissance battery (AIR battery), which is available in every artillery battalion/divizion/abteilung.
The artillery regiment has a AIR battalion/divizion/abteilung.
The equipment of this battalion is something that you never dreamed of.
As can be seen from your words, this is unknown to you.
So speaking of towed artillery, I had every right to talk about counter-battery warfare systems.

However, you did not answer the question - which two means of intelligence out of three will YOU keep for yourself.
Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 16:50
I do know what I am talking about. You seem to be stuck in a far away past.
This is my military specialty a infantryman and a artilleryman.
And in my civilian life, I was just engaged in a system for detecting, tracking and controlling the flight of rockets and spacecraft.

In particular, I worked in a group that built a landing strip and mounted the landing control system of the Buran spacecraft in automatic mode. The landing strip and landing control systems, which you can see in this video, are also my work.

15/11/1988
What a magnificent picture! Landing in automatic mode (Americans still don't have such a thing).
The deviation in the course (direction) was only half a meter (with an acceptable 6 meters). Stop at exactly the specified location. A masterpiece of engineering art performed by Soviet scientists, designers, engineers and builders. There is nothing like this to this day.



In my time, I carried out a lot of work on missile systems, anti-missile and anti-aircraft defense systems on the territory of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic.
I am not afraid to say that I know all the capabilities of Ukraine in terms of missile technology about the capabilities of anti-aircraft defense of this territory.
If you have a desire, then I can find a video on YouTube (when I watched it), where the device of the missile base on Ukraine is shown in detail, it is told and shown about missiles. At one time I did special work there.

You will no doubt have something to see.
This was only the USSR and the USA.
Moreover, according to the American military, who had the opportunity to visit this base, everything was more perfect for the USSR.
In particular, the Soviet missiles were in 12-second readiness for launch. In 12 seconds, the 120-ton cover of the rocket shaft opened and the rocket could immediately launch.
In the Soviet rocket, the gyroscopic systems located in the head of the rockets rotated constantly at a speed of 60,000 revolutions per minute.
On the other hand, American rockets needed half an hour to prepare the rocket for launch. Since American missiles did not solve the problem of ensuring constant rotation of gyroscopic systems.

By the way, if you wish, you can visit the place where this base was located, everything is preserved there, but of course it is neutralized, it is used as a museum.
This area is still in the territory controlled by the Kiev regime.

I am a very competent boy in many areas, even in the fight against the energy mafia.
By the way, in the course of my struggle with this mafia, I became known throughout Russia and in many other countries formed as a result of the collapse of the USSR, in particular, the newspapers of Kharkov, Zhytomyr and other cities of Ukraine wrote about this struggle of mine.
As they say in Russia: "Don't put your finger in my mouth, I'll bite it off right away."
A lot of rhetoric as usually and most of it irrelevant. If you open a door I can walk through it. If you go on about the ability to shoot down the drones that threaten your precious towed artillery then I can mention the means available to make that difficult.
And the choice you present me with is a false one. I do not have to choose.
You are not believable if you think Russian technology is superior. It never is.

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