Towed arty

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 30 Aug 2022 19:31

Aida1 wrote:
30 Aug 2022 19:22
You are not believable if you think Russian technology is superior. It never is.
On matters of faith, it is not necessary to turn to me, on matters of faith you need the church.
You need to contact me if you want to know. If there is a desire to know, you are welcome, if not, then as they say in Russia: "Скатертью дорога"="Good riddance."

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 31 Aug 2022 12:03

The principle of operation of the radar station of counter-battery warfare.
RLSCBF Zoopark-1M.jpg
The calculated coordinates of the position of enemy guns are transmitted to the firing position of their artillery battery.
Enemy guns will be hit long before the moment when the UAV is the fact of the shot and determine the place from where the shooting was made and by what. For example, a UAV will detect a flash from a gunshot, but the UAV cannot determine whether it was a real shot or a false one. On the other hand, the radar station of counter-battery warfare does not respond to a false shot.
There are no absolutely reliable systems.
All systems have advantages and all systems have disadvantages.
To explore the goal, you need to use all the systems that are available to you.
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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 31 Aug 2022 12:58

The cost of my favorite 122-mm howitzer D-30 is $50,000.
The cost of a false layout of such a howitzer is $ 500. To simulate a false battery, it is necessary to make five layouts, a total of 5x$500 = $2,500.
In total, we have: one real 122-mm howitzer and five mock-ups of 122-mm howitzers. In total, therefore, the cost of equipment in the position of our battery is:
$50,000 + 5x$500 = $50,000 + $2,500 = $52,500
The cost of one artillery shot of a 122-mm D-30 howitzer is less than $400. Then for an ammunition load of 80 shells,
it will be 80x $400 = $32,000.
The cost of a false shot will not exceed $10.
For five false howitzers, we have 80 false shots each:
5x80x$10 = $4,000.
In total, the cost of 80 valid shots from my favorite 122-mm D-30 howitzer (masked by false firing from models of my favorite howitzer) will be
$52,500 + $2,500 + $32,000 + $4,000 = $87,500.

The cost of the guided missile HARM is $160,000.
The probability of determining a non-false howitzer using a UAV is 16.7%.
For the convenience of the account and in order to dear Mr. Nonsense, that is, sorry, of course, dear Mr. Aida1, did not accuse us of underestimating, we will round up the probability of defeat by a controlled projectile to 20.0%.
Consequently, to destroy one 122-mm D-30 howitzer and five mock-ups of such a howitzer, the total cost of which at
a firing position of $87,500 will require 5x $ 160,000 = $800,000.
These are the realities of economics of the war we will have if we rely only on UAV and HARM to fight towed artillery.

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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 31 Aug 2022 14:14

Yuri wrote:
31 Aug 2022 12:03
The principle of operation of the radar station of counter-battery warfare.
RLSCBF Zoopark-1M.jpg
The calculated coordinates of the position of enemy guns are transmitted to the firing position of their artillery battery.
Enemy guns will be hit long before the moment when the UAV is the fact of the shot and determine the place from where the shooting was made and by what. For example, a UAV will detect a flash from a gunshot, but the UAV cannot determine whether it was a real shot or a false one. On the other hand, the radar station of counter-battery warfare does not respond to a false shot.
There are no absolutely reliable systems.
All systems have advantages and all systems have disadvantages.
To explore the goal, you need to use all the systems that are available to you.
The UAV does not have to see a flash. It can find an artillery piece even when it is not firing and it can also find the counterbattery radar.
Nobody will say you need only UAV but the UAV makes things more dangerous not only for the artillery.

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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 31 Aug 2022 14:21

Yuri wrote:
31 Aug 2022 12:58
The cost of my favorite 122-mm howitzer D-30 is $50,000.
The cost of a false layout of such a howitzer is $ 500. To simulate a false battery, it is necessary to make five layouts, a total of 5x$500 = $2,500.
In total, we have: one real 122-mm howitzer and five mock-ups of 122-mm howitzers. In total, therefore, the cost of equipment in the position of our battery is:
$50,000 + 5x$500 = $50,000 + $2,500 = $52,500
The cost of one artillery shot of a 122-mm D-30 howitzer is less than $400. Then for an ammunition load of 80 shells,
it will be 80x $400 = $32,000.
The cost of a false shot will not exceed $10.
For five false howitzers, we have 80 false shots each:
5x80x$10 = $4,000.
In total, the cost of 80 valid shots from my favorite 122-mm D-30 howitzer (masked by false firing from models of my favorite howitzer) will be
$52,500 + $2,500 + $32,000 + $4,000 = $87,500.

The cost of the guided missile HARM is $160,000.
The probability of determining a non-false howitzer using a UAV is 16.7%.
For the convenience of the account and in order to dear Mr. Nonsense, that is, sorry, of course, dear Mr. Aida1, did not accuse us of underestimating, we will round up the probability of defeat by a controlled projectile to 20.0%.
Consequently, to destroy one 122-mm D-30 howitzer and five mock-ups of such a howitzer, the total cost of which at
a firing position of $87,500 will require 5x $ 160,000 = $800,000.
These are the realities of economics of the war we will have if we rely only on UAV and HARM to fight towed artillery.
You are making no sense here. HARM is an ant-radiation missile which hones in on radars. Nothing to do with hitting your beloved howitzer.
I mentioned Harm as a means of combatting air defense and countererbattery radars.

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 31 Aug 2022 14:28

The day before yesterday (08/29/2022) in the area northwest of Kherson, this 122mm D-30 howitzer fired at the advancing units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, who were trying to break through Kherson.
122mmD-30(2).jpg
200 shells were spent.
122mmD-30(1).jpg
The barrel of the howitzer was red-hot.
122mmD-30.jpg
122mmD-30().jpg
The attack was repulsed with very heavy losses for the enemy.
Pay attention, the howitzer is dug deep enough. And as you can see, the UAV could not determine the position of the gun, despite the fact that 200 shells were fired.
This means that more than 4 tons of explosives were sent to the enemy in a short period of time.
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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 31 Aug 2022 14:41

Ukraine has also been equipped with sophisticated US counter battery radars which are very fast in detecting firing artillery. Combined with HIMARS and 155 MM howitzer Russian artillery has become vulnerable.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=f02005ee ... luZQ&ntb=1
Last edited by Aida1 on 31 Aug 2022 15:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 31 Aug 2022 15:21

Yuri wrote:
31 Aug 2022 12:58
The cost of my favorite 122-mm howitzer D-30 is $50,000.
The cost of a false layout of such a howitzer is $ 500. To simulate a false battery, it is necessary to make five layouts, a total of 5x$500 = $2,500.
In total, we have: one real 122-mm howitzer and five mock-ups of 122-mm howitzers. In total, therefore, the cost of equipment in the position of our battery is:
$50,000 + 5x$500 = $50,000 + $2,500 = $52,500
The cost of one artillery shot of a 122-mm D-30 howitzer is less than $400. Then for an ammunition load of 80 shells,
it will be 80x $400 = $32,000.
The cost of a false shot will not exceed $10.
For five false howitzers, we have 80 false shots each:
5x80x$10 = $4,000.
In total, the cost of 80 valid shots from my favorite 122-mm D-30 howitzer (masked by false firing from models of my favorite howitzer) will be
$52,500 + $2,500 + $32,000 + $4,000 = $87,500.

The cost of the guided missile HARM is $160,000.
The probability of determining a non-false howitzer using a UAV is 16.7%.
For the convenience of the account and in order to dear Mr. Nonsense, that is, sorry, of course, dear Mr. Aida1, did not accuse us of underestimating, we will round up the probability of defeat by a controlled projectile to 20.0%.
Consequently, to destroy one 122-mm D-30 howitzer and five mock-ups of such a howitzer, the total cost of which at
a firing position of $87,500 will require 5x $ 160,000 = $800,000.
These are the realities of economics of the war we will have if we rely only on UAV and HARM to fight towed artillery.
The Ukranians know the fake target trick too.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukraine ... rones.html

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 31 Aug 2022 16:12

At the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union on the territory of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic there was a huge amount of weapons of all types of armed forces and branches of the armed forces.
There were three (once again three) military districts on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR. For example, there was only one military district on the territory of the Belarusian Soviet Socialist Republic. There was only one military district on the territories of the three Soviet Socialist Republics of the Baltic States and plus the territory of the Kaliningrad Region of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic.
In addition, troops, weapons and ammunition of the Southern (the Hungarian People's Republic ) and Central (the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic) Groups of troops were withdrawn to the territory of the Ukrainian SSR in 1989-1991. These are nine (nine more times) tank and motorized rifle divisions. as well as parts of the reserve of the main command, including divisions of operational and tactical missiles Tochka-U. All this was added to the troops who were in the three Ukrainian military districts.
The territory on which Ukraine originated was stuffed with weapons and ammunition. This is the most militarized part of the European continent.
The statement that the armed forces of Ukraine allegedly do not have weapons and ammunition, these are fairy tales that Western propaganda tells to the Western man in the street so that he spreads his wallet wider.
I have already written above that I do not need to tell these tales about the absence or about the bad weapons in Ukraine and about the lack of ammunition.
Soviet artillery weapons, which are available in Ukraine, are better than samples of artillery systems that come from Western countries.
If the armed forces of Ukraine fail to reverse the situation in their favor using the excellent Soviet weapons systems they have (especially air defense and artillery), then this will especially not work with significantly less reliable samples of Western countries, such as, for example, Panzerhaubitze 2000 or M777.
========================================
The Soviet radar station of counter-battery warfare "Zoopark-3" is in service with the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
Zoopark-3 UAF.jpg
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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 31 Aug 2022 16:42

Yuri wrote:
31 Aug 2022 16:12
At the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union on the territory of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic there was a huge amount of weapons of all types of armed forces and branches of the armed forces.
There were three (once again three) military districts on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR. For example, there was only one military district on the territory of the Belarusian Soviet Socialist Republic. There was only one military district on the territories of the three Soviet Socialist Republics of the Baltic States and plus the territory of the Kaliningrad Region of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic.
In addition, troops, weapons and ammunition of the Southern (the Hungarian People's Republic ) and Central (the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic) Groups of troops were withdrawn to the territory of the Ukrainian SSR in 1989-1991. These are nine (nine more times) tank and motorized rifle divisions. as well as parts of the reserve of the main command, including divisions of operational and tactical missiles Tochka-U. All this was added to the troops who were in the three Ukrainian military districts.
The territory on which Ukraine originated was stuffed with weapons and ammunition. This is the most militarized part of the European continent.
The statement that the armed forces of Ukraine allegedly do not have weapons and ammunition, these are fairy tales that Western propaganda tells to the Western man in the street so that he spreads his wallet wider.
I have already written above that I do not need to tell these tales about the absence or about the bad weapons in Ukraine and about the lack of ammunition.
Soviet artillery weapons, which are available in Ukraine, are better than samples of artillery systems that come from Western countries.
If the armed forces of Ukraine fail to reverse the situation in their favor using the excellent Soviet weapons systems they have (especially air defense and artillery), then this will especially not work with significantly less reliable samples of Western countries, such as, for example, Panzerhaubitze 2000 or M777.
========================================
The Soviet radar station of counter-battery warfare "Zoopark-3" is in service with the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
Zoopark-3 UAF.jpg
Extremely chauvinistic. Western weapons are generally better than Russians ones. So the Ukraine wants western weapons for good reasons.

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Yuri
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Yuri » 01 Sep 2022 10:58

Panzerhaubitze 2000 (PzH 2000)
PzH_2000.jpg
One of the most modern guns in the world! | Bundeswehr


In this tarantass PzH 2000, in addition to the coachman, four passengers are placed. A very beautiful, I would even say, elegant vehicle and its proboscis is very sexy.
They say that from this very sexy proboscis you can spit out a package of five 155 mm shells one after the other in just 10 seconds and along different trajectories, so that the shells will fly to the target at the same time.
Very impressive characteristics of this 60-ton tarantass on tracks, there are no words. However, the most important and most important characteristic of this vehicle on tracks is its price (cost). To say that the price of our tarantass is fabulous, it means to say nothing, it is sky-high.
For example, if you pay in one euro coins, then the weight of the volume of such coins will be more than the weight of our tarantass. But of course this product has its drawbacks, no product is without flaws.
For example, although you can fire five shells in a row in 10 seconds.
However, in just 24 hours, no more than 100 shells can be fired. That is, in terms of a day, we have that the maximum rate of fire is one shot in 15 minutes.
You can, of course, shoot a series of five or even ten shots. But in this case, the next series of shots can be started no earlier than in 75-150 minutes.
Thus, when riding this tarantass on the mountain and desert roads of Afghanistan, there is no need to install a semaphore on the tower, as well as have semaphore flags and know the semaphore alphabet. Another thing is when the tarantass moves along the steppe roads of Donbass and Kherson.
Here, for the driver and crew members of the tarantass, knowledge of the semaphore alphabet and the presence of semaphores on the tower will be a more necessary thing than a 155 mm barrel.
АзбукаСемафорная.jpg
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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 01 Sep 2022 11:49

Yuri wrote:
01 Sep 2022 10:58
Panzerhaubitze 2000 (PzH 2000)
PzH_2000.jpg

One of the most modern guns in the world! | Bundeswehr


In this tarantass PzH 2000, in addition to the coachman, four passengers are placed. A very beautiful, I would even say, elegant vehicle and its proboscis is very sexy.
They say that from this very sexy proboscis you can spit out a package of five 155 mm shells one after the other in just 10 seconds and along different trajectories, so that the shells will fly to the target at the same time.
Very impressive characteristics of this 60-ton tarantass on tracks, there are no words. However, the most important and most important characteristic of this vehicle on tracks is its price (cost). To say that the price of our tarantass is fabulous, it means to say nothing, it is sky-high.
For example, if you pay in one euro coins, then the weight of the volume of such coins will be more than the weight of our tarantass. But of course this product has its drawbacks, no product is without flaws.
For example, although you can fire five shells in a row in 10 seconds.
However, in just 24 hours, no more than 100 shells can be fired. That is, in terms of a day, we have that the maximum rate of fire is one shot in 15 minutes.
You can, of course, shoot a series of five or even ten shots. But in this case, the next series of shots can be started no earlier than in 75-150 minutes.
Thus, when riding this tarantass on the mountain and desert roads of Afghanistan, there is no need to install a semaphore on the tower, as well as have semaphore flags and know the semaphore alphabet. Another thing is when the tarantass moves along the steppe roads of Donbass and Kherson.
Here, for the driver and crew members of the tarantass, knowledge of the semaphore alphabet and the presence of semaphores on the tower will be a more necessary thing than a 155 mm barrel.
АзбукаСемафорная.jpg
It can fire more than 100 rounds a day but you will have more wear and tear. Given it's accuracy and the use of special munitions much less firing is needed. In an environment with drones, artillery cannot shoot long anyway. It is shoot and scoot.

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Re: Towed arty

Post by Cult Icon » 01 Sep 2022 14:09

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org ... on-weapons

Gen. Karpenko: You have to understand why maintenance is very important today. Most of the heavy equipment that we use is operated in such grave conditions due to heavy artillery shelling and heavy fires. The equipment doesn't stop being operational because it's used up. It stops being operational because of constant artillery shelling.

Unfortunately, we don't have an opportunity today to have foreign supplied equipment sent back to a restoration facility simply because of time constraints. That is why we are discussing spare parts here so that we can maintain and repair that equipment right in the field.

For example, the M777 artillery systems are really prone to being damaged by enemy artillery. For every battery of M777, there are six pieces.

After every artillery contact, we have to take two artillery pieces and take them back to the rear to maintain them because some of the subsystems are damaged by shrapnel. This happens every day.

Equipment that has gone to the rear of the frontline is maintained solely by Ukrainian specialists that have been trained by different foreign companies for that specific purpose.

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Aida1
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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 01 Sep 2022 14:34


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Re: Towed arty

Post by Aida1 » 01 Sep 2022 14:54


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