Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

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LAstry
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Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#1

Post by LAstry » 11 Apr 2022, 15:16

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/ki ... ar-AAUDqBD

Years ago Dr K Predicted..... :thumbsup: :milwink: :D :wink:

2014 Ukrainian crisis

Henry Kissinger on April 26, 2016
On March 5, 2014, The Washington Post published an op-ed piece by Kissinger, 11 days before the Crimean referendum on whether Autonomous Republic of Crimea should officially rejoin Ukraine or join neighboring Russia.[195] In it, he attempted to balance the Ukrainian, Russian and Western desires for a functional state. He made four main points:

Ukraine should have the right to choose freely its economic and political associations, including with Europe;
Ukraine should not join NATO, a repetition of the position he took seven years before;
Ukraine should be free to create any government compatible with the expressed will of its people. Wise Ukrainian leaders would then opt for a policy of reconciliation between the various parts of their country. He imagined an international position for Ukraine like that of Finland.
Ukraine should maintain sovereignty over Crimea.
Kissinger also wrote: "The west speaks Ukrainian; the east speaks mostly Russian. Any attempt by one wing of Ukraine to dominate the other—as has been the pattern—would lead eventually to civil war or break up."[195]

Following the publication of his book titled World Order, Kissinger participated in an interview with Charlie Rose and updated his position on Ukraine, which he sees as a possible geographical mediator between Russia and the West.[196] In a question he posed to himself for illustration regarding re-conceiving policy regarding Ukraine, Kissinger stated: "If Ukraine is considered an outpost, then the situation is that its eastern border is the NATO strategic line, and NATO will be within 200 miles (320 km) of Volgograd. That will never be accepted by Russia. On the other hand, if the Russian western line is at the border of Poland, Europe will be permanently disquieted. The Strategic objective should have been to see whether one can build Ukraine as a bridge between East and West, and whether one can do it as a kind of a joint effort."[197]

In December 2016, Kissinger advised then President-elect Donald Trump to accept "Crimea as a part of Russia" in an attempt to secure a rapprochement between the United States and Russia, whose relations soured as a result of the Crimean crisis.[198] When asked if he explicitly considered Russia's sovereignty over Crimea legitimate, Kissinger answered in the affirmative, reversing the position he took in his Washington Post op-ed.[199]

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#2

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 15 Apr 2022, 22:17

It sucks that Kissinger isn't yet in the Ninth Circle for the thousands of Cambodians, Laotians, Latin Americans, Vietnamese, etc. whose blood is on his hands, but he's right on this issue. If there's a god, maybe He let Henry live so long to do some good for once.
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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#3

Post by wm » 15 Apr 2022, 23:44

What about this balance (GDP):
- the West (including Canada, Japan, South Korea) = $50T
- China = $17T
- Russia = 1.65T

The war against the 30 times stronger West (with China quietly exploiting Russia's weakness in the background) is the greatest political blunder ever, basically since Adam and Eve.
It's greater than Pearl Harbor or Hitler's wars. At least Japan and Germany became sane and were able to (magnificently) recover.
Russia, with its archaic economy, is incapable of that.

The Polish president met recently with Xi and asked him what he thought about the conflict and Xi said this: "trade is the only thing that counts."

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#4

Post by Cult Icon » 16 Apr 2022, 02:56

wm wrote:
15 Apr 2022, 23:44
What about this balance (GDP):
- the West (including Canada, Japan, South Korea) = $50T
- China = $17T
- Russia = 1.65T

You should ask the Mongols if they had more coin than the China, which they conquered. :lol:

pre-war Russia was about 3 x GDP per capita compared to Ukraine.

I believe Russia is #3 in military expenditure, also Russian manpower and weapon systems are many multiples cheaper compared to US/NATO standards.

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#5

Post by Reigo2 » 16 Apr 2022, 09:11

Pointless to count GDP or manpower/weapons systems cost if Russia has nuclear weapons. The best hope is Russia will be denuclearized (besides nenazified) when all this is over.

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#6

Post by Yuri » 16 Apr 2022, 10:59

Reigo2 wrote:
16 Apr 2022, 09:11
Pointless to count GDP or manpower/weapons systems cost if Russia has nuclear weapons. The best hope is Russia will be denuclearized (besides nenazified) when all this is over.
What?
Soviet/Russian nuclear weapons prevent freedom in the Baltic States to hold marches in honor of the SS Division legionnaires and commit heinous outrages on monuments to the soldiers of Red Army - the liberators of Europe from the brown plague?

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#7

Post by Reigo2 » 16 Apr 2022, 11:37

Yuri wrote:
16 Apr 2022, 10:59
Reigo2 wrote:
16 Apr 2022, 09:11
Pointless to count GDP or manpower/weapons systems cost if Russia has nuclear weapons. The best hope is Russia will be denuclearized (besides nenazified) when all this is over.
What?
Soviet/Russian nuclear weapons prevent freedom in the Baltic States to hold marches in honor of the SS Division legionnaires and commit heinous outrages on monuments to the soldiers of Red Army - the liberators of Europe from the brown plague?
No, Yuri. I meant that Russian nuclear weapons are a tool of blackmail in the hands of the NaZi mafia ruling Russia - a modern brown plague. Hopefully on one day you will experience the same as Nazi Germany's arrogant patriots experienced in 1945 - a complete national humiliation, occupation, denazification. And now Germany is an advanced and prosperous country without being dangerous to neighbours (opposite to modern Russia). Germany's example shows that this is a needed path also for Russia. Maybe it is now "1940" for Russian patriots when Russia seems controlling the game and invincible (because of nukes) but you can't be sure that in the end "1945" will not occur.

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#8

Post by Cult Icon » 16 Apr 2022, 14:08

Reigo2 wrote:
16 Apr 2022, 09:11
Pointless to count GDP or manpower/weapons systems cost if Russia has nuclear weapons. The best hope is Russia will be denuclearized (besides nenazified) when all this is over.
Some are concerned that if things go bad for Russia they will used tactical or strategic nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

Supposedly the Iskander and other common tactical missile systems can fire Hiroshima level- payloads. And the there are artillery rounds of "small tactical nukes" that can be fired from standard heavy artillery pieces 152mm and above.

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#9

Post by wm » 16 Apr 2022, 14:33

Yes, Putin could use nuclear weapons against Ukraine, and from the military point of view, he should.
But the fate of Ukraine is unimportant. It's not about Ukraine.
The only important thing is that predators like Putin will learn that war as a continuation of political intercourse is unacceptable and will create unbearable costs for the predator.

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#10

Post by wm » 16 Apr 2022, 14:34

Cult Icon wrote:
16 Apr 2022, 02:56
You should ask the Mongols if they had more coin than the China, which they conquered. :lol:

You monster! How dare you compare the legendary Genghis Khan or his son Ögedei (and their successful Pax Mongolica) with this puny Putin. :)

And yes, the Mongol Empire was probably larger and wealthier than (fragmented anyway) China when the Mongols invaded China. Certainly more modern, dynamic and innovative.

Russian weapons are cheaper, mainly because older stuff is always cheaper. But on the modern battlefield, old stuff has no right to survive.

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#11

Post by LAstry » 17 Apr 2022, 19:32

Dr K was correct in his anaylis and results of such actions.... :thumbsup: :milwink: :thumbsup:

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#12

Post by LAstry » 30 Apr 2022, 16:28

Came across this report on russian Ukraine war...True?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/4 ... ecommended
Last edited by LAstry on 30 Apr 2022, 22:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#13

Post by wm » 30 Apr 2022, 19:04

I'm rather sure it's mostly rumors + probably Ukrainian propaganda.
Of course, it's war so nothing wrong with propaganda, especially if effective.
But as usual "believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see."

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#14

Post by Cult Icon » 01 May 2022, 04:26

wm wrote:
16 Apr 2022, 14:34
And yes, the Mongol Empire was probably larger and wealthier than (fragmented anyway) China when the Mongols invaded China. Certainly more modern, dynamic and innovative.
Hmmph, I was more referring to the opposite. The Han chinese was the comparatively cultured and rich one..but not nearly as militarized. The Mongol society was a literal Orc-like war machine. When at war the society moved along with the army.

The financialization of a society is not reflective of its true capability. A T-72M that is 10 times cheaper than a M1 Abrams doesn't mean that the T-72 M is worth 10% of the M1.

The Anti- Russian army propaganda from the Ukrainians started from the first days of the war with the claims of "low morale" and the highlighting of looting- using these examples to stereotype the whole army. What is missing from this thesis are the gigantic columns of Russian POWs...

Another WW2-like tactic is the constant boasting of tank kills and such (like the Germans) to raise their own morale.

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Re: Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

#15

Post by VanillaNuns » 25 May 2022, 08:58

Henry Kissinger has been making similar claims this week at David and I think he's right.

Not a fan of this newspaper below but it's the best link I can find which doesn't have a paywall.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... itory.html

Crimea has been Russian now for almost 10 years. Do you really think their citizens are going to be happy to live under Ukrainian rule?

Likewise with the Donbas region. The pro Russian separatists there obviously have no wish to be reconciled with Kiev. They've been firing rockets at them since 2014.

This is the best deal Ukraine (maybe Putin too) is going to get. Anything more is a quagmire and a war of guerrilla attrition which will result in the deaths of many more civilians.

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