Henry Kissinger on Russia and Ukraine

[Yuri]

England has committed so many of the most terrible crimes that it can rightfully be considered the most criminal state on the planet in the modern world, and all Englishmen should be executed with the most terrible execution. However, there are at least four things for which the British should be forgiven for all past present and future transgressions:
1. Shakespeare
Kozintsev's HAMLET (1964) Critic Robin Wood recently cited this stunning 1964 Russian version of Shakespeare's tragedy as the only one that "could be claimed as having the stature, as film, that the play has as theatre," and it's easy to see what he means..
2. Newton
3. Football
4. The Beatles.
Paul McCartney - Back In The USSR

Dears Sid, wm, LineDoggie and all others Russophobes, but I would be interested to know, can you name at least one reason why Russians can be forgiven for all their past, present and future transgressions?

P.S. By the way, the 1966 World Championships in London at Wimbledon and 2018 in Russia are the best of all.
The Games in London were the first that I watched live on TV (at that time the recordings were not broadcast). And championship in the Russian is the first one where I watched live games at stadiums.

[Peter89]

Most NATO members are members of the EU and most EU members are members of NATO.
The EU is also ( as NATO ) interventionist,even outside Europe and is arrogantly lecturing and threatening,sanctioning countries that are not members of the EU : example : Belarus.
Since June Ukraine is already a candidate member of the EU,and who will dare to oppose its membership ?

EU has a cooperative, humanitarian and multilateral foreign policy: but do not mistake foreign policy with military intervention. Although the EU could crush Lukashenko in a month (especially since the Byelorussian people are not behind him anymore) militarily, the EU opted for scaling back the economic cooperation, nothing more. Because: it is the Byelorussian people's job to get rid of him as long as he doesn't use military to kill his own people.

The most powerful country in Europe, Germany do not send military forces anywhere without UN approval, thus: without the consent of Russia and China. They didn't even join the war in Iraq and North Africa, the same is true for Austria, Finland, etc. Nor did they supply weapons into conflict zones.

Turkey applied in 1987, and it is still not a member, and will never be a member.

Foreign policy is not the same as military intervention: by your definition, every single country on Earth is interventionalist, because they have opinion about other countries.

German war exports in 2020 :8 billion Euro,in 2021 9 billion Euro, together with France :230 million Euro to Russia !!! (The Telegraph 22 April ).
Nothing wrong,as if you can't sell weapons to indecent people who will use them to kill other people,you can't have a weapon industry .
Germany exports weapons to Iraq (Liberal Democracy ??),South Korea, South Africa,Libya, Egypt, and gives weapons for free to Ukraine .The others have to pay .
The whole thing proves the hypocrisy of the Western countries .Exporting weapons to war zones and doing blah blah about peace .

Germany did not export weapons to conflict zones until its national security was threatened by Russia; and you did not present proof of the contrary. Period.

About the humanitarian foreign policy of the EU bureaucrats : they attacked the elections in Venezuela ,a country in Latin America . This proves only their imperialism, racism and colonialism .

What's happening in Venezuela is the business of the people of Venezuela, not the business of von der Leyen .
It is the same for the attacks on Lucachenko,of whom you claim,without proof that he has lost the support of the inhabitants of Bela Rus .To honor an opponent of Lucachenko and to label her as the legal president is an attack on the sovereignty of Bela Rus .
And, opposed to what you say , the EU is imposing sanctions on Bela Rus and demands new elections .
Lucashenko is the the facto,thus de jure ,president of Bela Rus and what Lithuania is saying is irrelevant .The same for what is saying von der Leyen who said that Tikhanovskaya is ''an inspiration to us all .''

No: what happens in Byelorussia (a neighbour of EU) is also the business of the EU. If a non-cooperative dictator is getting into power with cheated elections it means that if the EU accepts the said dictator, it legitimizes the cheated elections and the dictator's rule: thus, the sensible policy is to support the opposition. You know what is imperialism? To attack that country with military; something that Russia or the USA would do.

Imposing sanctions on a country outside the EU,because the EU does not like its domestic policy is racism, colonialism and imperialism .The same for giving the opponents of the ruler millions of euro to fire him by a civil war .
We do not need a president of Bela Rus who is an inspiration for us, but a president of Bela Rus with whom we can do business and make money .

No. 1. Racism is out of place as everyone is white European. 2. Colonialism is irrelevant as Byelorussia was never a colony, it's a neighbour similar to the bordering EU countries. 3. Imperialism would be to crush Belarus and tell the locals how to live: Ukraine, Afghanistan, etc.

In the past Lucashenko was as dictatorial as he is today, but this did not prevent the hypocritical EU to sell him Glocks (Austria ), Sig-Sauer (Germany ) Benelli ( Italy ),Remington (US ),etc ..

In the recent past, most Byelorussian people backed Lukashenko: I was there before covid myself, it was not a terrible country, people went to Lithuania for shopping, etc. When Lukashenko should have lost power, he cheated on the election and committed serious crimes against EU civilians: a casus belli for any power. Except of course, the EU. Now who the hell is expecting anything less than economic sanctions?

[wm]

Dears Sid, wm, LineDoggie and all others Russophobes, but I would be interested to know, can you name at least one reason why Russians can be forgiven for all their past, present and future transgressions?

It's all about self-preservation, not guilt or even justice.
Every social group has its rules, and the international community has them too (even if weakly or ineptly enforced).

One of the most elementary is war without international legality is not an acceptable act of policy.
All else is whataboutism and victim blaming.

[ljadw]

Most NATO members are members of the EU and most EU members are members of NATO.
The EU is also ( as NATO ) interventionist,even outside Europe and is arrogantly lecturing and threatening,sanctioning countries that are not members of the EU : example : Belarus.
Since June Ukraine is already a candidate member of the EU,and who will dare to oppose its membership ?

EU has a cooperative, humanitarian and multilateral foreign policy: but do not mistake foreign policy with military intervention. Although the EU could crush Lukashenko in a month (especially since the Byelorussian people are not behind him anymore) militarily, the EU opted for scaling back the economic cooperation, nothing more. Because: it is the Byelorussian people's job to get rid of him as long as he doesn't use military to kill his own people.

The most powerful country in Europe, Germany do not send military forces anywhere without UN approval, thus: without the consent of Russia and China. They didn't even join the war in Iraq and North Africa, the same is true for Austria, Finland, etc. Nor did they supply weapons into conflict zones.

Turkey applied in 1987, and it is still not a member, and will never be a member.

Foreign policy is not the same as military intervention: by your definition, every single country on Earth is interventionalist, because they have opinion about other countries.

German war exports in 2020 :8 billion Euro,in 2021 9 billion Euro, together with France :230 million Euro to Russia !!! (The Telegraph 22 April ).
Nothing wrong,as if you can't sell weapons to indecent people who will use them to kill other people,you can't have a weapon industry .
Germany exports weapons to Iraq (Liberal Democracy ??),South Korea, South Africa,Libya, Egypt, and gives weapons for free to Ukraine .The others have to pay .
The whole thing proves the hypocrisy of the Western countries .Exporting weapons to war zones and doing blah blah about peace .

Germany did not export weapons to conflict zones until its national security was threatened by Russia; and you did not present proof of the contrary. Period.

About the humanitarian foreign policy of the EU bureaucrats : they attacked the elections in Venezuela ,a country in Latin America . This proves only their imperialism, racism and colonialism .

What's happening in Venezuela is the business of the people of Venezuela, not the business of von der Leyen .
It is the same for the attacks on Lucachenko,of whom you claim,without proof that he has lost the support of the inhabitants of Bela Rus .To honor an opponent of Lucachenko and to label her as the legal president is an attack on the sovereignty of Bela Rus .
And, opposed to what you say , the EU is imposing sanctions on Bela Rus and demands new elections .
Lucashenko is the the facto,thus de jure ,president of Bela Rus and what Lithuania is saying is irrelevant .The same for what is saying von der Leyen who said that Tikhanovskaya is ''an inspiration to us all .''

No: what happens in Byelorussia (a neighbour of EU) is also the business of the EU. If a non-cooperative dictator is getting into power with cheated elections it means that if the EU accepts the said dictator, it legitimizes the cheated elections and the dictator's rule: thus, the sensible policy is to support the opposition. You know what is imperialism? To attack that country with military; something that Russia or the USA would do.

Imposing sanctions on a country outside the EU,because the EU does not like its domestic policy is racism, colonialism and imperialism .The same for giving the opponents of the ruler millions of euro to fire him by a civil war .
We do not need a president of Bela Rus who is an inspiration for us, but a president of Bela Rus with whom we can do business and make money .

No. 1. Racism is out of place as everyone is white European. 2. Colonialism is irrelevant as Byelorussia was never a colony, it's a neighbour similar to the bordering EU countries. 3. Imperialism would be to crush Belarus and tell the locals how to live: Ukraine, Afghanistan, etc.

In the past Lucashenko was as dictatorial as he is today, but this did not prevent the hypocritical EU to sell him Glocks (Austria ), Sig-Sauer (Germany ) Benelli ( Italy ),Remington (US ),etc ..

In the recent past, most Byelorussian people backed Lukashenko: I was there before covid myself, it was not a terrible country, people went to Lithuania for shopping, etc. When Lukashenko should have lost power, he cheated on the election and committed serious crimes against EU civilians: a casus belli for any power. Except of course, the EU. Now who the hell is expecting anything less than economic sanctions?

In 2020 Germany sold for 1 billion Euro of weapons to countries involved in the Yemen and Libya conflicts, Quatar got 305 million .
Germany's national security was not threatened by these conflicts .
The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute gives the names of the five top world arms exporters .
They are
US
Russia
France
China
Germany
And Germany and Ukraine sold weapons to Russia which Russia used to kill Ukrainians .
Poland sold also weapons to Oman, although Polish security was not threatened .
In 2019 Ukraine sold weapons to Turkey (war zone ),India, KSA ( war zone ).
About the elections in Bela Rus : they are the business of the people of that country only . Not the business of foreigners .Von der Leyen has no business in what happens in Bela Rus .The ruler of Bela Rus does not meddle in the domestic politics of Poland,or Germany .
Von der Leyen thinks she has the right to tell other nations what they should do in their country .
This Kipling attitude is out of date . It is racism (the EU is better than the rest of the world ) also colonialism ( The EU has the right to intervene in the business of other countries ) and thus also imperialist .
It is also suicidal : the nations that are not members of the EU will not tolerate this neocolonialism .
Kipling said that it was the duty of the white man to rule the world, EU says that is is its duty and that everyone should obey her .

[ljadw]

Dears Sid, wm, LineDoggie and all others Russophobes, but I would be interested to know, can you name at least one reason why Russians can be forgiven for all their past, present and future transgressions?

It's all about self-preservation, not guilt or even justice.
Every social group has its rules, and the international community has them too (even if weakly or ineptly enforced).

One of the most elementary is war without international legality is not an acceptable act of policy.
All else is whataboutism and victim blaming.

There is no such thing as the international community and there is no such thing as a war without or with international legality .

[ljadw]

Most NATO members are members of the EU and most EU members are members of NATO.
The EU is also ( as NATO ) interventionist,even outside Europe and is arrogantly lecturing and threatening,sanctioning countries that are not members of the EU : example : Belarus.
Since June Ukraine is already a candidate member of the EU,and who will dare to oppose its membership ?

Because: it is the Byelorussian people's job to get rid of him as long as he doesn't use military to kill his own people.

It is not on you to say what is the job of the people of Bela Rus .

[ljadw]

You said that Russia could not admit the existence of a sovereign Ukrainian state and that that is the reason why Putin attacked .
The facts are that during more than 20 years Ukraine existed as an independent state and that Putin did nothing .The CIA coup of Euromaidan

There was and is no such thing as the CIA Coup of Euromaiden just the usual russian lies. And russia has tried to destabilize Ukraine since the USSR broke up.

triggered a Russian answer and then

to a question no one asked

... NOTHING happened and Ukraine continued to exist as an independent state, notwithstanding the mass US weapons transports to Ukraine .

You mean US weapon transports after russian scumbags invaded Ukraine and start killing civilians left and right

Putin remained silent and did nothing when Zelensky became president .

Who gives putin or russia the right to do otherwise? Zelensky was elected by the Ukrainians- Putin can go fornicate his own mother orally for all he has a right to say about Zelensky's election.

No one knows why he attacked in February ,we only know that the reasons given by Radio Free Europa are lies .

Say the russians and their lackeys.....

We can only assume a reason,which is , IMHO, the attempts from the US and its satellites ,to destabilize Lycachenko from Bielarus .

I bet putin and Lukashenko dock each other....

This increased the paranoia in the Kremlin,and not unjustifiedly : if the CIA dares to try to eliminate Lycachenko, they would do the same with Putin .

Putins own lackeys will liquidate him once they cannot feed their families. A Stechkin to the neck on burst, job done

The world of the Kremlin is a world where Russia is encircled by its enemies as was the USSR before and after WW2 .

In humans such behavior is a mental health defect that's called paranoia. But let's examine that russia is surrounded by enemies (''Mewl says the russians, ukraine was mean to us''

maybe because how russia treated its neighbors from 1940 onwards (And lets count the 30's genocide of Ukrainians in the Holodomor)-

Invaded, occupied and committed ethnic cleansing in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland (Katyn ring a bell for you son?) everywhere the Russian soldier arrived rape , murder followed them, they even raped liberated concentration camp inmates, frikken savage animals.

Sent tanks to people demanding bread, work and freedom in Hungary, Czechoslovakia. Invaded Finland and stole their land, Murdered East German Workers for demanding reforms.

Putin does not try to transform Nicaragua in a Russian satellite,as is doing US with Ukraine

Another lie by the liar putin and his lackeys .

Why must Ukraine (if you say Ukraine,you say corruption ) become a member of NATO and the EU (the economic NATO ) at the cost of the European taxpayer .Besides :why does Ukraine have to be a US satellite ?

Freedom is priceless, those who lived under russian scum know this

I know of Katyn, I know also about the hundreds of thousands of Russians, Jews, Poles murdered by Ukrainians .Does the name Petljura rings a bell ?
Freedom is not priceless .Freedom is a luxury most people can not afford .
And, as I expected : the Holodomor myth (famine in USSR ) is coming back .
Where are your proofs for your claim that Russia has tried to destabilize Ukraine since the USSR broke up ?
And, if this is so, why has Ukraine since the fall of the USSR been exporting weapons to Russia ?
The chief of Interpol said that weapons sent to Ukraine will land in criminal hands . (Source is the anti Putin Guardian ) .

[wm]

There is no such thing as the international community and there is no such thing as a war without or with international legality .

The existence of war with international legality (or humanitarian intervention) is not the point (although people wrote books on this subject.)
The point is that today "war is not an acceptable act of policy."

the international community = "countries of the world considered or acting together as a group". Have you just said countries acting together don't exist?

[Peter89]

Most NATO members are members of the EU and most EU members are members of NATO.
The EU is also ( as NATO ) interventionist,even outside Europe and is arrogantly lecturing and threatening,sanctioning countries that are not members of the EU : example : Belarus.
Since June Ukraine is already a candidate member of the EU,and who will dare to oppose its membership ?

Because: it is the Byelorussian people's job to get rid of him as long as he doesn't use military to kill his own people.

It is not on you to say what is the job of the people of Bela Rus .

It's nobody's job, not even Lukashenka's: most Byelorussians don't want him anyway.

Countries are connected to each other, and thus each and every one of them is interested in others. I'm not putting it into "good" and "bad" terms: isolationism and autarchy is the losers' way like North Korea. Those who want to challange Western primacy should beat them in their own game, like China or Japan tries to do. Not because it is only fair to do so or something, but because no one has invented any more effective system or technology that could be forced upon the West.

[Peter89]

In 2020 Germany sold for 1 billion Euro of weapons to countries involved in the Yemen and Libya conflicts, Quatar got 305 million .
Germany's national security was not threatened by these conflicts .

The destabilization of the MENA region is directly threatening Germany's national security and domestic politics.

Besides: Germany did not sell weapons to those who warred but to other countries which participated in conflicts. In fact Germany facilitated peace negotiations.

The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute gives the names of the five top world arms exporters .
They are
US
Russia
France
China
Germany
And Germany and Ukraine sold weapons to Russia which Russia used to kill Ukrainians .
Poland sold also weapons to Oman, although Polish security was not threatened .
In 2019 Ukraine sold weapons to Turkey (war zone ),India, KSA ( war zone ).

Germany could not know that those weapons will be used to kill Ukrainians, nobody knows the future in advance. Also I did not say the same policy is true for Ukraine or Poland.

Also about racism: it is not racism to communicate. If I tell you that your smoking bothers me and I don't want to exchange my car for your tractor is not racism, because the color of your skin never even appeared.

[Peter89]

England has committed so many of the most terrible crimes that it can rightfully be considered the most criminal state on the planet in the modern world, and all Englishmen should be executed with the most terrible execution.

The Englishmen who live now have limited (cultural and political) responsibility for the historical crimes. Neither of us bears any collective, criminal responsibility for the past. Neither Englishmen, nor Russians.

[Cult Icon]

Here is a copy of the Military Balance 2021:

https://hostnezt.com/cssfiles/currentaf ... 202021.pdf

France, 2021 IISS:
ARMOURED FIGHTING VEHICLES MBT 222
ARTILLERY 265+

United Kingdom, 2021 IISS:
ARMOURED FIGHTING VEHICLES MBT 227
ARTILLERY 598

Germany, Finland, Italy, etc. had similar figures.

Notice the low tank and heavy artillery strengths of the biggest NATO members. Looks like a lot of money spent on defense goes into salaries/benefits and maintaining the air and naval forces. The US, the most funded military in the world only has 4,300 heavy artillery pieces in the Army/Marine Corps which compares badly with Russia. Basically Russia and Ukraine sat on top of decades of Soviet accumulation.

Ukraine had the second largest tank and heavy artillery force in Europe prior to the invasion. Their losses as of the first week of June in heavy artillery was over 700. I wouldn't be surprised if their real losses were over 1000 now.

[wm]

I wonder what the British terrible crimes were - except for introducing the cricket game in India and Pakistan.

[Aida1]

This is the usual pro Russian tunnel view on the world.
There is no prohibition on Ukraine joining NATO. It is only the weakness of European appeasers of Putin that has kept Ukraine out of NATO.
The Ukraine would be a very good NATO member. Very motivated.

Again... you could refrain from personal comments.

Joining the NATO requires a lengthy negotiation followed by a unanimous vote of the existing members. Greek veto practically forced Macedonia to change the name of the country.
Hungary would never vote for Ukraine's ascension with its current discriminative laws, and the current Ukrainian leadership would not revoke those laws which they take so seriously that the president himself was fined.

You are evading. The issue is that NATO is the umbrella that eastern European nations wanted against the russian threat.
You make a funny remark about Hungary as it has a reputation for not respecting certain basic principles about human rights.

[Aida1]

Obvious nonsense. Ukraine would never be coerced to anything by the US and UK. It was only ever threatened by Russia. It wants to join NATO and EU and should be accepted. The Ukraine is not a vassal state of Russia.

Joining the EU is a procedure which has a negotiation framework. Ukraine was and is light years away from closing a number of chapters. It's not that "they apply and they should be accepted".

It's wants in and it will eventually get in. Russia still does not respect the Ukraine's right to get into the EU and NATO.