Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

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wm
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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#121

Post by wm » 14 Aug 2022, 23:52

Sid Guttridge wrote:
14 Aug 2022, 23:28
Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism are not necessarily the same thing. It is almost certain that anti-Semites are also anti-Zionist,
The Nazis weren't initially anti-Zionist; Hitler was happy to send as many Jews to Palestine as possible.
medal.jpg
Ein Nazi fährt nach Palästina
A medal announcing a 12-part series of articles about Palestine in Goebbels' newspaper "der Angriff" (1934).
Written by a journalist (later SS-Untersturmführer) Leopold von Mildenstein and the German Zionist Kurt Tuchler, in support of the Nazi-Jewish cooperation in colonizing Palestine under the Haavara Agreement.
BTW The Jewish Betar militia was allowed to operate in Nazi Germany till the Kristallnacht and even to fly the Jewish flag there. They were preparing to conquer Palestine from the British under the "forty thousand" plan.

And nationalist political parties in Eastern Europe usually supported Jewish colonization of Palestine - intending thanks to it to break Jewish dominance in their countries' economies and reduce the crippling structural unemployment.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#122

Post by ljadw » 15 Aug 2022, 09:18

wm wrote:
14 Aug 2022, 20:00
ljadw wrote:
14 Aug 2022, 19:50
Why was the shadow trial of the Kremlin doctors cancelled ?
Actually, there is evidence Stalin was going to stop the trial because he was informed by a Stalinist he trusted (the young, enthusiastic leader of the Komsomol he asked for a second opinion) that the accusations were bst.
Isn't evidence-based history nice?
What evidence ?
And why was the Jewish Anti Fascist Committee disbanded, its members arrested and 13 of them executed after a shadow trial ?


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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#123

Post by Aida1 » 15 Aug 2022, 10:50

wm wrote:
14 Aug 2022, 23:52
Sid Guttridge wrote:
14 Aug 2022, 23:28
Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism are not necessarily the same thing. It is almost certain that anti-Semites are also anti-Zionist,
The Nazis weren't initially anti-Zionist; Hitler was happy to send as many Jews to Palestine as possible.
medal.jpg
Ein Nazi fährt nach Palästina
A medal announcing a 12-part series of articles about Palestine in Goebbels' newspaper "der Angriff" (1934).
Written by a journalist (later SS-Untersturmführer) Leopold von Mildenstein and the German Zionist Kurt Tuchler, in support of the Nazi-Jewish cooperation in colonizing Palestine under the Haavara Agreement.
BTW The Jewish Betar militia was allowed to operate in Nazi Germany till the Kristallnacht and even to fly the Jewish flag there. They were preparing to conquer Palestine from the British under the "forty thousand" plan.

And nationalist political parties in Eastern Europe usually supported Jewish colonization of Palestine - intending thanks to it to break Jewish dominance in their countries' economies and reduce the crippling structural unemployment.
That is very true. Zionists wanted jews to go to Palestine so there certainly was a common agenda in that sense.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#124

Post by Aida1 » 15 Aug 2022, 10:56

wm wrote:
14 Aug 2022, 18:47
ljadw wrote:
14 Aug 2022, 17:50
2 Only Israel can protect the Jews
A racist conspiracy theory - frequently used by chauvinists to justify the colonial conquest of Palestine and the expulsion of its population.


ljadw wrote:
14 Aug 2022, 17:50
4 Without Israel,the Jews are doomed .
Not true; a racist conspiracy theory.



Nonsense. Jews are certainly safest in Israel and they do need their own country. I shed no tears for Arabs that lived in Palestine. They could have been perfectly integrated in the Arab country they left for. There will never be a return.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#125

Post by Aida1 » 15 Aug 2022, 10:59

wm wrote:
01 Jul 2022, 23:11
The support for the re-establishment of Israel was a huge mistake. It destabilized the entire region, led to immense suffering, and continues to do so even today.
Jewish nationalists love to point out that post-ww2 Israel was the only safe place for Jews but facts deny it.
The majority of European Jews didn't go to Israel. They went somewhere else, preferably to the US.
The Jews have a right to their own country and if the Arabs had simply accepted that, there would never have been a problem.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#126

Post by ljadw » 15 Aug 2022, 11:52

Loïc wrote:
14 Aug 2022, 19:17
no sorry wm that is wrong, from Copernic and Rosiers streets in the years 80' to Toulouse 2012, the two Halimi, Hyper Casher etc, it is clear that you live in Poland Eastern Europe where maybe it is like that but not in Western Europe like us
wm wrote:
14 Aug 2022, 15:24
ljadw wrote:
14 Aug 2022, 14:39
Jews are leaving Western Europe,because of the attacks by Muslims, Liberals and Marxists .
That's the far-right canard - it results in mass hate against the Muslims, Liberals, and people branded "Marxists."
fully completely totally agree with ljadw
rather the politically correct denial who closes the eyes on the so-called romantized Che Guevara-style communist revolutionnary far-left canard and its today recognized antisemitism covered under its anti-zionist anti-capitalist pro-palestinan cause
jewish people are leaving if not for others countries at least to interior areas far from the over-represented muslim urban areas, like an internal emigration towards the interior as under the german nazi occupation where they found more protection
cause and source of the antisemitism according to French Jews
73 % from islamists extremists muslims
67 % from the far-left
27 % from the far-right
hard facts
20 February 2019 the Jewish cemetery of Quatzenheim was vandalized ;this was an anti-Semitic act .
A few years ago, Alain Finkielkraut, son of Polish Jews, but with a French nationality,former Maoist,member of the Académie Francaise was attacked and insulted because he ''was Jewish ''.This was an anti-Semitic act .
This proves that today's anti-Zionists are in reality anti-Semitics .
Che Guevara was a racist who said that whites were superior to blacks .
Politifact invented a lot of excuses for him ,but no one believes them .

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wm
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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#127

Post by wm » 15 Aug 2022, 12:16

Aida1 wrote:
15 Aug 2022, 10:59
The Jews have a right to their own country and if the Arabs had simply accepted that, there would never have been a problem.
Nobody has the right to populated land that isn't theirs.
But when conquered, the conquest frequently becomes legal - because legality is possession + international recognition.
Isreal is legalized conquest, so-called effective conquest.
Legal but morally unacceptable to many:
hixson2x740.jpg

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wm
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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#128

Post by wm » 15 Aug 2022, 12:21

ljadw wrote:
15 Aug 2022, 11:52
20 February 2019 the Jewish cemetery of Quatzenheim was vandalized ;this was an anti-Semitic act .
A few years ago, Alain Finkielkraut, son of Polish Jews, but with a French nationality,former Maoist,member of the Académie Francaise was attacked and insulted because he ''was Jewish ''.This was an anti-Semitic act .
A nice example of the inappropriate generalization fallacy.

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wm
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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#129

Post by wm » 15 Aug 2022, 12:32

ljadw wrote:
15 Aug 2022, 11:52
This proves that today's anti-Zionists are in reality anti-Semitics .
The term "anti-Semitism" is so massively overused by everybody including ignoramuses, politicians, nationists, chauvinists it has basically no meaning today.
It frequently denotes intellectual laziness or ignorance of the person using the term - the unwillingness to dig deeper beyond appearances.
For example:
"Because she was Jewish" vs a robbery "because Jews are usually rich."

As Mr. ljadw has "proved," the entire population of the planet is anti-semitic - neatly proving the absurdity of the thinking based on labeling.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#130

Post by wm » 15 Aug 2022, 12:39

Aida1 wrote:
15 Aug 2022, 10:56
Nonsense. Jews are certainly safest in Israel and they do need their own country. I shed no tears for Arabs that lived in Palestine. They could have been perfectly integrated in the Arab country they left for. There will never be a return.
Although
"Without Israel, the Jews are doomed" ≠ "Jews are certainly safest in Israel"

But even "Jews are certainly safest in Israel" is false.
From the Oslo Accords (Sept. 1993) until September 2000 - nearly 300 Israelis were killed in attacks.
During the Palestinian Al-Aqsa Intifada (Sept. 2000 - Dec. 2005) another 1,100 Israelis were killed.
Since September 2000, Palestinian terrorist attacks have claimed at least 1,396 Israeli lives
.
At the same time, there were 0 terror attacks in Poland, and no Jew was killed there.
So which country is safest for the Jews?

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wm
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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#131

Post by wm » 15 Aug 2022, 13:04

ljadw wrote:
15 Aug 2022, 09:18
And why was the Jewish Anti Fascist Committee disbanded, its members arrested and 13 of them executed after a shadow trial ?
In Stalinist Russia, adequate performance of the State apparatus was provided by purges, i.e., the removal of underperforming or unreliable people with simplified, speedy investigations.

The Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee proved its potential unreliability by maintaining contacts with the West, especially with the US.
Even more (the Committee + Soviet Jewry) by outbursts of nationalistic feelings during the enthusiastic welcome of the minister plenipotentiary to the Soviet Union Golda Meir in 1948.
That unapproved enthusiasm was a direct challenge to Stalin's authority.
In Stalinist Russia, people were purged for much lesser offenses.
Golda_Meir_Moscow_1948.jpg
Golda_Meir_Moscow_1948.jpg (79.18 KiB) Viewed 254 times

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#132

Post by ljadw » 15 Aug 2022, 21:45

The reason was the antisemitism of Stalin .

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#133

Post by ljadw » 15 Aug 2022, 21:55

wm wrote:
15 Aug 2022, 12:39
Aida1 wrote:
15 Aug 2022, 10:56
Nonsense. Jews are certainly safest in Israel and they do need their own country. I shed no tears for Arabs that lived in Palestine. They could have been perfectly integrated in the Arab country they left for. There will never be a return.
Although
"Without Israel, the Jews are doomed" ≠ "Jews are certainly safest in Israel"

But even "Jews are certainly safest in Israel" is false.
From the Oslo Accords (Sept. 1993) until September 2000 - nearly 300 Israelis were killed in attacks.
During the Palestinian Al-Aqsa Intifada (Sept. 2000 - Dec. 2005) another 1,100 Israelis were killed.
Since September 2000, Palestinian terrorist attacks have claimed at least 1,396 Israeli lives
.
At the same time, there were 0 terror attacks in Poland, and no Jew was killed there.
So which country is safest for the Jews?
In November 2015 Muslim terrorists murdered 131 persons in Paris . On 9/11 they murdered thousands of people in New York .
Without Israel the Jews are doomed : in all countries in the world there is a strong antisemitism,spread by the media. Excepted in Israel .
As long as Israel exists, the Jews can flee to Israel, without Israel, they have no save place .
And, about Poland : how many Jews were killed in 1946 in Kielce ? Poland will not accept millions of Jewish refugees, only Israel can do this .If /when the 500000 Jewish French will have to leave France because of the persecutions by the 5 million Muslims, will Poland accept them ?
Yes or no .

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wm
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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#134

Post by wm » 15 Aug 2022, 22:09

Yes, the goyim are inherently Jew-eaters - it's one of the most insidious and racist conspiracy theories. You are a hater and racist, Mr. ljadw.
racism - the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.

ljadw wrote:
15 Aug 2022, 21:45
The reason was the antisemitism of Stalin .
The sentence is intellectually empty and explains nothing. It's basically a tautology. It merely says he harmed Jews because he disliked them.
People who harm others usually don't do it because they love them. Harming implies bad motives.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#135

Post by ljadw » 16 Aug 2022, 07:03

Insults are not answers,but efforts to hide the fact that one has no answers .
Judy Neiman, 100 years, holocaust survivor,has left US for Israel,that following you is very dangerous for Jews .
Before the war there were 3 million Jews in Poland, only 300000 remained in 1945,only 3800 in 1990 and 3200 in 2016,between 1990 and 2015 almost 30 % left Poland ,although following you,there were no terror attacks against the Jews in Poland .
You can continue to deny that anti-Semitism is rising over the whole world,but no one will believe you .
Some one attacked Pfizer for its role in the Corona crisis ,and his key argument was that the CEO of Pfizer (Bourla )was Jewish .
And this in 2022 !

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