Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

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wm
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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#286

Post by wm » 26 Aug 2022, 08:07

ljadw wrote:
26 Aug 2022, 06:37
Never heard of Sharia for Britain and Anjem Choudary ? Of course not .
On its website Islam 4 UK said that it wanted to '' convince the British public about the superiority of Islam ,thereby changing public opinion in favour of of Islam in order to transfer the authority and power to the Muslims in order to implement the Sharia in Britain . ''
Everybody and their dog can publish their opinions on the Internet.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#287

Post by wm » 26 Aug 2022, 08:15

ljadw wrote:
26 Aug 2022, 06:02
East is east and West is west and never the twain shall meet .
Author : Rudyard Kipling ,left-liberal progressist par excellence .
So I must assume you and that guy J.R. Kipling have never been to any advanced Arab country: Dubai, Qatar, Bahrain.
They not only have a nice hard-core capitalism there but a nice social socialism too, plus unparallel quality of life.
And all that without oil money (Dubai) or reduced oil money.


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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#288

Post by ljadw » 26 Aug 2022, 12:04

Qatar : dictatorship infamous for its ties to terrorists from Al Qaeda,Al Nusra, Hamas, ISIL and Iran .
And with its infamous football stadium, for the World Cup, constructed by slaves from India and Pakistan,of whom thousands died during the construction .
Nice example of an advanced Arab country .

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#289

Post by wm » 26 Aug 2022, 12:18

"Thousands died" is bst without evidence.
"ties to terrorists" is too, some Qataris sent money, but the state wasn't involved.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#290

Post by ljadw » 26 Aug 2022, 12:26

He said that The Guardian,the British NYT, defender of ISIS,etc,very anti-Semite,is lying .
Nice owngoal .
He will play for Poland and Qatar at the World Cup .
Qatar is an extension of Iran .

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#291

Post by Princess Perfume » 26 Aug 2022, 14:24

In 2005, when Israel withdrew its troops and settlers from Gaza, it concluded an agreement with the Palestinian Authority for the staged opening up of links between Gaza and the outside world: the opening of the Rafah crossing, a road to the West Bank, a port and finally an airport. This agreement, if implemented, would have led to construction, investment and employment in Gaza, for which it is well-placed due to its proximity to Israel, the only functioning market economy in the region. If this agreement had been followed for the past 17 years, Gaza would now be a much more prosperous and contented place than it is. Instead, of course, Hamas seized power in Gaza in 2007 and turned it into a base for waging war against Israel. The 2005 agreement lapsed and Israel imposed its partial blockade. People in Gaza have every right to be angry, but they ought to direct their anger at Hamas, who are responsible for their current situation. The campaign of attempts to force the Israel-Gaza border will do absolutely nothing to improve the position of the people of Gaza. In fact the lesson of the whole of Palestinian history since 1918 has been that each time the Palestinians reject compromise and resort to violence (wars, riots, revolts, terrorism, intifadas), they lose, and they end up worse off, politically and materially, than they were before.

The text of the Agreement:

https://www.eubam-rafah.eu/sites/defaul ... Access.pdf

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#292

Post by wm » 26 Aug 2022, 19:08

Maybe they should have listened to Mr. Jabotinsky when he said that the Arabs would not sell their homeland for a good railway system.
Such agreements never worked, but they needed to understand history to know that.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#293

Post by wm » 26 Aug 2022, 19:09

ljadw wrote:
26 Aug 2022, 12:26
He said that The Guardian,the British NYT, defender of ISIS,etc,very anti-Semite,is lying .
I've asked for evidence not for a link to a tabloid.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#294

Post by ljadw » 26 Aug 2022, 19:55

You said that there were no thousands of victims of the construction of the World Cup buildings .
The Guardian, defender of Iran and thus also of Qatar and of
the Arab terrorist groups,which you defend,said that there were thousands of victims .
Thus, you said that one of your media is lying .
QED .

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#295

Post by ljadw » 26 Aug 2022, 19:58

Princess Perfume wrote:
26 Aug 2022, 14:24
In 2005, when Israel withdrew its troops and settlers from Gaza, it concluded an agreement with the Palestinian Authority for the staged opening up of links between Gaza and the outside world: the opening of the Rafah crossing, a road to the West Bank, a port and finally an airport. This agreement, if implemented, would have led to construction, investment and employment in Gaza, for which it is well-placed due to its proximity to Israel, the only functioning market economy in the region. If this agreement had been followed for the past 17 years, Gaza would now be a much more prosperous and contented place than it is. Instead, of course, Hamas seized power in Gaza in 2007 and turned it into a base for waging war against Israel. The 2005 agreement lapsed and Israel imposed its partial blockade. People in Gaza have every right to be angry, but they ought to direct their anger at Hamas, who are responsible for their current situation. The campaign of attempts to force the Israel-Gaza border will do absolutely nothing to improve the position of the people of Gaza. In fact the lesson of the whole of Palestinian history since 1918 has been that each time the Palestinians reject compromise and resort to violence (wars, riots, revolts, terrorism, intifadas), they lose, and they end up worse off, politically and materially, than they were before.

The text of the Agreement:

https://www.eubam-rafah.eu/sites/defaul ... Access.pdf
An other lesson is : do not believe what the Palestinians and their Western friends are saying :their promises are lies . See the examples of Gaza, Sinai and Golan .

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#296

Post by ljadw » 26 Aug 2022, 20:17

wm wrote:
26 Aug 2022, 08:15
ljadw wrote:
26 Aug 2022, 06:02
East is east and West is west and never the twain shall meet .
Author : Rudyard Kipling ,left-liberal progressist par excellence .
So I must assume you and that guy J.R. Kipling have never been to any advanced Arab country: Dubai, Qatar, Bahrain.
They not only have a nice hard-core capitalism there but a nice social socialism too, plus unparallel quality of life.
And all that without oil money (Dubai) or reduced oil money.
FYI :East is East and West is West and never shall the twain meet (one of the few intelligent things Kipling said ) was written in 1889 .
And 9/11 ,etc ,..have proved that Kipling, a well known anti-Semite was right .
And the countless slaves in Dubai, Qatar and Bahrain will disagree with your claim that the quality of life in these countries is without parallel .

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#297

Post by wm » 26 Aug 2022, 21:26

ljadw wrote:
26 Aug 2022, 19:55
You said that there were no thousands of victims of the construction of the World Cup buildings .
I've asked for evidence, not for a link to a tabloid.
Where are the bodies, their families, posts from their Facebook groups?
It's the 21st century; everybody there is on the Internet.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#298

Post by wm » 26 Aug 2022, 21:33

ljadw wrote:
26 Aug 2022, 20:17
And the countless slaves in Dubai, Qatar and Bahrain will disagree with your claim that the quality of life in these countries is without parallel .
I was in the workers' districts of Dubai, RAK, Bahrain because of the shops they have there and because you couldn't avoid them anyway and haven't seen any slaves.
Everything looked nice, and I felt much safer than, for example, in the center of London.
Where actually, my family lives, and they were all individually violently robbed in a single year, not to mention that people are afraid to go outside at night there.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#299

Post by CogCalgary » 27 Aug 2022, 01:46

wm wrote:
24 Aug 2022, 22:46
CogCalgary wrote:
24 Aug 2022, 20:09
The one small insignificant area that the Jews were allowed to worship.IIRC,there was also an incident where a dung cart was emptied there.Doesnt sound very accommodating.
It was private property, and Jewish nationalists regularly disturbed peace there - till they triggered a massive religious scare among the Muslims.
They sow the wind, and they reaped the whirlwind; that's the entire story - and in the end, 200+ innocent people were dead.
24 Sept 1928 the screens at the Wailing Wall were removed..
August 11,1929,"Weizmann had opened the Constituent Assembly of the enlarged Jewish Agency,described as"coextensive with the Jewish people everywhere"
The riots were from August 23-29,the attacks were started by Arabs.Most of the Arabs were killed by British bullets.
A Senseless Squalid War.

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Re: Since 1917 105 years of western blunders in the Middle east

#300

Post by Princess Perfume » 27 Aug 2022, 07:23

At this point in the discussion the point is always raised that hostility to Israel, and even the assertion that Israel has no right to exist – in other words anti-Zionism – is not the same thing as anti-Semitism, which is hostility to Jews as Jews, not to Israel as a state. Are there not Jews who hold anti-Zionist views (it is said), and does this not prove that anti-Zionism is not the same as anti-Semitism?

As a proposition in logic, that is undeniable. There are many Jews who reject Zionism, although they are a small proportion of all the Jews in the world. They include both leftist secular intellectuals such as Shlomo Sand and Noam Chomsky, and some ultra-Orthodox sects such as Satmar, which reject secular Zionism as blasphemous. Therefore it cannot be asserted that to be an anti-Zionist is also, automatically, to be an anti-Semite.

But in practice this argument doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny. For the great majority of the world’s Jews, now and throughout history, identification with the Land of Israel as the historic homeland of the Jewish people, and the belief that the Jews should and will return there, has been and is still central to their identity as Jews, and this is true of both religious and secular Jews. To deny the legitimacy of that identity and that aspiration is in effect an attack on the Jewish people, and is experienced as such by the great majority of Jews.

In practice, most of those who most vocally espouse anti-Zionism, whether from a Muslim background or from a secular leftist background, also explicitly or implicitly espouse one or more of the traditional tropes of anti-Semitic rhetoric. The most powerful of these are that the Jews are uniquely powerful and influential, that they work together as a secret international cabal, that they control the world financial system and the world media, and that they use their power to manipulate governments for their own benefit.

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