news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Discussions on other historical eras.
Locked
Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1006

Post by Tom Peters » 13 Oct 2022, 04:24

ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 15:41

Do you don't see that previous KIA/WIA ratios ,from western armies in WW2 ,EIGHTY years ago,can not be used to estimate the KIA/WIA ratios of today 's wars ?
yes, they are derived from a mass of data, including WW2 data.

While K:W is about 1:4, with the prevalence of modern body armor, the K:W is tending towards 1:5.

Too bad you dont know QJM.
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 15:41
And : western media publish only what DC is feeding them .They are to lazy and to stupid to do it themselves and they have not the means to inform themselves about the situation .And, this is without their anti-Russian bias and racism .
Blah, blah, blah, nice Kremlin talking points, comrade.

[sob sob] "everyone is so racist against Russia"

First off, Russian is not a race. No racism. The term you are blindly groping for is "bigoted". However, it is not bigoted to revile RU for its acts in this war. This war is ENTIRELY due to Putin and his personal desires. No one is winning, the world is losing due to it.

There is a reason so many countries in eastern Europe want to join NATO - they dont trust RU due to the extensive abuses they suffered under them during the 20th century.
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 15:41
A whole week our media were trying to scare us with the story that Putin would use nuclear weapons,but today John Kirby,spokesman of the NSC,has admitted that there are no signs that Putin is preparing to use nuclear weapons .


Putin is the one nuclear sabre rattling. Not the US, not NATO.
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 15:41
I know very well why Biden has launched this story : within three weeks there are midterm elections in the US and the polls are not very good for the Democrats .
This means that our media have lied ,they are not better than the Russian media .
Who is "our" ? You dont live in the US.

There is no RU media. Its controlled by the state. You see, thats why, in RU, you can be arrested for saying this is a "war". In the US, at least you have a variety of sources all over the spectrum. Trying to equate RU and the US media is simply childishly dumb.

Mad Dog

Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1007

Post by Tom Peters » 13 Oct 2022, 04:27

ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 20:45

Ww2 started 83 years ago : it is the past .The strategies, tactics and weapons from ww2 are also the past .Since 1945 the world has known dozens of wars,, but only 10 modern versions of WW2 . Most wars were and are guerilla wars who demand other weapons and an other thinking than WW 2 . The epoch of the conventional wars,children of WW2 , is over .US army is still studying the battles of WW2 ,who will not come back . And we have seen the results in Afghanistan and Vietnam of their convulsively holding to the past .Not only the US but all western countries refuse to accept the truth,because they live in a world were military can not kill civilians . While in the rest of the world,this is not so .The only way to defeat partisans, terrorists is to use more violence than they against the population .The Russians are terrorizing the population of the occupied parts of Ukraine ,because they know that this is
the only way to prevent a partisan uprising .
We live and fight in an other world .
I have countered the arguments from WW2 with examples of WW2 .
Ljadw seems dangerously close to admitting that RU atrocities are ok. Bucha, anyone ? mass graves in Izyum ?

Mad Dog


Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1008

Post by Tom Peters » 13 Oct 2022, 04:29

MarkF617 wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 21:14
Ljadw,

Post 910 it is you who first used a WW2 example, you were not countering a WW2 situation.

Also again you accuse the West of racism despite earlier claiming racism doesn't really exist.

How can anyone take your arguments seriously when you constantly contradict yourself?

Thanks

Mark.
No one does.

Mad Dog

Sean Oliver
Member
Posts: 177
Joined: 14 Sep 2007, 19:18
Location: Wisconsin USA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1009

Post by Sean Oliver » 13 Oct 2022, 05:23

Michael Kenny wrote:
11 Oct 2022, 23:05

I know Canadian troops were in Bras and Hubert Folie on 20th July but that was after the fighting had ended. This film

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH1oItw ... Path%C3%A9


from 1m 35s- 2m 04 is Canadian troops in what I believe to be the SE corner of Hubert Folie and as it is not IWM Film almost certainly a film shot by a Canadian Cameraman and a copy of some of the raw footage lost in the fire in the 1960s.
2m 06s is Cagny and that proves a Canadian got that far east.
JW and co.JPG

And at 3:42:
"Johnnie Walker's vibrant outdoor notes and long smoky finish make it the ideal whisky for a lazy afternoon with friends and a captured Nebelwerfer, which is also known for its lingering smokiess."

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15589
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1010

Post by ljadw » 13 Oct 2022, 07:01

Tom Peters wrote:
13 Oct 2022, 04:27
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 20:45

Ww2 started 83 years ago : it is the past .The strategies, tactics and weapons from ww2 are also the past .Since 1945 the world has known dozens of wars,, but only 10 modern versions of WW2 . Most wars were and are guerilla wars who demand other weapons and an other thinking than WW 2 . The epoch of the conventional wars,children of WW2 , is over .US army is still studying the battles of WW2 ,who will not come back . And we have seen the results in Afghanistan and Vietnam of their convulsively holding to the past .Not only the US but all western countries refuse to accept the truth,because they live in a world were military can not kill civilians . While in the rest of the world,this is not so .The only way to defeat partisans, terrorists is to use more violence than they against the population .The Russians are terrorizing the population of the occupied parts of Ukraine ,because they know that this is
the only way to prevent a partisan uprising .
We live and fight in an other world .
I have countered the arguments from WW2 with examples of WW2 .
Ljadw seems dangerously close to admitting that RU atrocities are ok. Bucha, anyone ? mass graves in Izyum ?

Mad Dog
Where did I admit that they were OK ?

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15589
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1011

Post by ljadw » 13 Oct 2022, 07:22

Tom Peters wrote:
13 Oct 2022, 04:24
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 15:41

Do you don't see that previous KIA/WIA ratios ,from western armies in WW2 ,EIGHTY years ago,can not be used to estimate the KIA/WIA ratios of today 's wars ?
yes, they are derived from a mass of data, including WW2 data.

While K:W is about 1:4, with the prevalence of modern body armor, the K:W is tending towards 1:5.

Too bad you dont know QJM.
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 15:41
And : western media publish only what DC is feeding them .They are to lazy and to stupid to do it themselves and they have not the means to inform themselves about the situation .And, this is without their anti-Russian bias and racism .
Blah, blah, blah, nice Kremlin talking points, comrade.

[sob sob] "everyone is so racist against Russia"

First off, Russian is not a race. No racism. The term you are blindly groping for is "bigoted". However, it is not bigoted to revile RU for its acts in this war. This war is ENTIRELY due to Putin and his personal desires. No one is winning, the world is losing due to it.

There is a reason so many countries in eastern Europe want to join NATO - they dont trust RU due to the extensive abuses they suffered under them during the 20th century.
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 15:41
A whole week our media were trying to scare us with the story that Putin would use nuclear weapons,but today John Kirby,spokesman of the NSC,has admitted that there are no signs that Putin is preparing to use nuclear weapons .


Putin is the one nuclear sabre rattling. Not the US, not NATO.
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 15:41
I know very well why Biden has launched this story : within three weeks there are midterm elections in the US and the polls are not very good for the Democrats .
This means that our media have lied ,they are not better than the Russian media .
Who is "our" ? You dont live in the US.

There is no RU media. Its controlled by the state. You see, thats why, in RU, you can be arrested for saying this is a "war". In the US, at least you have a variety of sources all over the spectrum. Trying to equate RU and the US media is simply childishly dumb.

Mad Dog
Modern body armor ? The Iraqi, Iranian, African .. soldiers have no modern body armor . As usual you ignores that most of the fighting is done by non Americans .
And, about western media : you wisely avoid to answer my quote of Colby ( former CIA chief ) who said in 1981:''The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media . ''
And Mark Twain :'' If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed,if you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed .''
Before the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact the Russians were good guys,when they refused to fight against Germany while the West would do nothing, they were traitors .
In WW2 western newspapers depicted the Russians as heroes who fought for liberty and freedom, bla,bla . Katyn ? The work of the Germans,the Nazis (although no western journalist knew what Nazisnm was ) .
A few years later the same journalists depicted the Russians as communist monsters,worse than the Nazis . Although western journalists were too stupid to know what Communism was .
40 years later,suddenly the Russians were good guys: they had a president elected with the help of US $.
And now : they are monsters again .
Who still believes these people ?

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15589
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1012

Post by ljadw » 13 Oct 2022, 07:35

Tom Peters wrote:
13 Oct 2022, 03:56
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 07:26

US army manual is about wars where the US fought, and these wars are only a minority and can not be used as a proof : most of WW2 fighting was done in the east,between the Soviets and Germany and the US army manual has no data about the war in the east .
Sigh. So much pointless assumption your part. The models used by the army or QJM are based off of combat data from all available sources and battles, not just those fought by the US.

If you had bothered to look into this you would of known this. You didnt exert even the minimal degree of curiosity. Instead you made another stupid assertion not based in reality.

Why do you keep embarrassing yourself ?

Mad Dog
Available sources ? Do you say that the Soviet sources were available to Americans ? Or the Japanese sources .the Iranian, Iraqi sources......?

User avatar
Aida1
Member
Posts: 4506
Joined: 04 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Brussels

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1013

Post by Aida1 » 13 Oct 2022, 07:57

ljadw wrote:
13 Oct 2022, 07:01
Tom Peters wrote:
13 Oct 2022, 04:27
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 20:45

Ww2 started 83 years ago : it is the past .The strategies, tactics and weapons from ww2 are also the past .Since 1945 the world has known dozens of wars,, but only 10 modern versions of WW2 . Most wars were and are guerilla wars who demand other weapons and an other thinking than WW 2 . The epoch of the conventional wars,children of WW2 , is over .US army is still studying the battles of WW2 ,who will not come back . And we have seen the results in Afghanistan and Vietnam of their convulsively holding to the past .Not only the US but all western countries refuse to accept the truth,because they live in a world were military can not kill civilians . While in the rest of the world,this is not so .The only way to defeat partisans, terrorists is to use more violence than they against the population .The Russians are terrorizing the population of the occupied parts of Ukraine ,because they know that this is
the only way to prevent a partisan uprising .
We live and fight in an other world .
I have countered the arguments from WW2 with examples of WW2 .
Ljadw seems dangerously close to admitting that RU atrocities are ok. Bucha, anyone ? mass graves in Izyum ?

Mad Dog
Where did I admit that they were OK ?
You implicitly did by showing understanding for harsh treatment of the population.

User avatar
Aida1
Member
Posts: 4506
Joined: 04 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Brussels

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1014

Post by Aida1 » 13 Oct 2022, 08:01

ljadw wrote:
13 Oct 2022, 07:22
Tom Peters wrote:
13 Oct 2022, 04:24
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 15:41

Do you don't see that previous KIA/WIA ratios ,from western armies in WW2 ,EIGHTY years ago,can not be used to estimate the KIA/WIA ratios of today 's wars ?
yes, they are derived from a mass of data, including WW2 data.

While K:W is about 1:4, with the prevalence of modern body armor, the K:W is tending towards 1:5.

Too bad you dont know QJM.
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 15:41
And : western media publish only what DC is feeding them .They are to lazy and to stupid to do it themselves and they have not the means to inform themselves about the situation .And, this is without their anti-Russian bias and racism .
Blah, blah, blah, nice Kremlin talking points, comrade.

[sob sob] "everyone is so racist against Russia"

First off, Russian is not a race. No racism. The term you are blindly groping for is "bigoted". However, it is not bigoted to revile RU for its acts in this war. This war is ENTIRELY due to Putin and his personal desires. No one is winning, the world is losing due to it.

There is a reason so many countries in eastern Europe want to join NATO - they dont trust RU due to the extensive abuses they suffered under them during the 20th century.
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 15:41
A whole week our media were trying to scare us with the story that Putin would use nuclear weapons,but today John Kirby,spokesman of the NSC,has admitted that there are no signs that Putin is preparing to use nuclear weapons .


Putin is the one nuclear sabre rattling. Not the US, not NATO.
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 15:41
I know very well why Biden has launched this story : within three weeks there are midterm elections in the US and the polls are not very good for the Democrats .
This means that our media have lied ,they are not better than the Russian media .
Who is "our" ? You dont live in the US.

There is no RU media. Its controlled by the state. You see, thats why, in RU, you can be arrested for saying this is a "war". In the US, at least you have a variety of sources all over the spectrum. Trying to equate RU and the US media is simply childishly dumb.

Mad Dog
Modern body armor ? The Iraqi, Iranian, African .. soldiers have no modern body armor . As usual you ignores that most of the fighting is done by non Americans .
And, about western media : you wisely avoid to answer my quote of Colby ( former CIA chief ) who said in 1981:''The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media . ''
And Mark Twain :'' If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed,if you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed .''
Before the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact the Russians were good guys,when they refused to fight against Germany while the West would do nothing, they were traitors .
In WW2 western newspapers depicted the Russians as heroes who fought for liberty and freedom, bla,bla . Katyn ? The work of the Germans,the Nazis (although no western journalist knew what Nazisnm was ) .
A few years later the same journalists depicted the Russians as communist monsters,worse than the Nazis . Although western journalists were too stupid to know what Communism was .
40 years later,suddenly the Russians were good guys: they had a president elected with the help of US $.
And now : they are monsters again .
Who still believes these people ?
Ridiculous. You are generalising again. Putin and his regime are blamed for what it did.
And your personal opinion about western media being controlled by the CIA is typical conspirationism again.

User avatar
Aida1
Member
Posts: 4506
Joined: 04 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Brussels

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1015

Post by Aida1 » 13 Oct 2022, 08:02

ljadw wrote:
13 Oct 2022, 07:35
Tom Peters wrote:
13 Oct 2022, 03:56
ljadw wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 07:26

US army manual is about wars where the US fought, and these wars are only a minority and can not be used as a proof : most of WW2 fighting was done in the east,between the Soviets and Germany and the US army manual has no data about the war in the east .
Sigh. So much pointless assumption your part. The models used by the army or QJM are based off of combat data from all available sources and battles, not just those fought by the US.

If you had bothered to look into this you would of known this. You didnt exert even the minimal degree of curiosity. Instead you made another stupid assertion not based in reality.

Why do you keep embarrassing yourself ?

Mad Dog
Available sources ? Do you say that the Soviet sources were available to Americans ? Or the Japanese sources .the Iranian, Iraqi sources......?
You have not read any of these studies so you know nothing about them. You are bluffing.

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15589
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1016

Post by ljadw » 13 Oct 2022, 09:27

peeved wrote:
12 Oct 2022, 22:54


Since Russia is an imperialist-aggressive bandit state ruled by compulsively lying genocidal maniacs leading armed forces of evil with an overrepresentation (in comparison with civilised countries) of thieves, rapists and murderers anti-Russian equals pro-good in the framework of the current conflict.


Markus
Imperialist-aggressive is not the same as bandit .Imperial Germany and Britain were not bandits but were imperialist and aggressive .
As usual you are exaggerating : the Kremlin leaders are not genocidal maniacs ,neither was the German Emperor ( an ally of Finland ) whose armies burned in 1914 several Belgian cities and murdered thousands of Belgian civilians .And they did not differently in the East : see Kalisz . The armies of the Tsar were not better .
No one said that their armies were armed forces of evil .
And, I like to see the proof that thieves,rapists and murderers are overrepresentated in the Russian army .
I also object to the use of the word of good .Good has no place in wartime .
If the Russian armies are now evil, so were the Soviet armies in WW2 ,and at the end of the war Finland fought at the side of these evil forces .

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15589
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1017

Post by ljadw » 13 Oct 2022, 09:50

About Biden and the Russian use of nuclear weapons .
1 BBC 25 September : US president has warned Russia not to use nuclear weapons in the war in Ukraine .
BBC ''forgets '' to add that there were no signs indicating that Russia would do this and that Biden was inventing something that did not exist .
2 The Guardian : Biden's ''Armageddon '' warning was not based on new intelligence, US said .

This warning was made during a fundraiser diner ,which was held to support the Democrats in the midterm elections ,thus the warning also was made for the same reason . Biden was criticized by the French president Macron .
The warning was made for political reasons, nothing special,Biden is the head of the Democratic party and for the Democratic and Republican parties, the midterm elections are more important than a war in Ukraine .
I would have said the same .
But ,as one could expect ,his henchmen ( the media ) slavishly repeated what their master said .

User avatar
Aida1
Member
Posts: 4506
Joined: 04 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Brussels

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1018

Post by Aida1 » 13 Oct 2022, 10:29

ljadw wrote:
13 Oct 2022, 09:50
About Biden and the Russian use of nuclear weapons .
1 BBC 25 September : US president has warned Russia not to use nuclear weapons in the war in Ukraine .
BBC ''forgets '' to add that there were no signs indicating that Russia would do this and that Biden was inventing something that did not exist .
2 The Guardian : Biden's ''Armageddon '' warning was not based on new intelligence, US said .

This warning was made during a fundraiser diner ,which was held to support the Democrats in the midterm elections ,thus the warning also was made for the same reason . Biden was criticized by the French president Macron .
The warning was made for political reasons, nothing special,Biden is the head of the Democratic party and for the Democratic and Republican parties, the midterm elections are more important than a war in Ukraine .
I would have said the same .
But ,as one could expect ,his henchmen ( the media ) slavishly repeated what their master said .
You conveniently 'forget ' :lol: :lol: that it was Putin who threatened the use of nuclear weapons several times. Not invented by anybody. That US media are the henchmen of the president is your typical conspirationism again.Nothing to do with reality.

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1019

Post by Cult Icon » 13 Oct 2022, 17:37



T-90,T-80,T-72,Iskander-M,Tor-2,Buk-3,Strela,Msta-S,Giancit, Gvozdika on rails

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1020

Post by Cult Icon » 13 Oct 2022, 17:44



Tochka-U



Russian tank transporter



Transporter SP 152mm artillery

Locked

Return to “Other eras”