news from Russo-Ukraine Front

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Aida1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1066

Post by Aida1 » 14 Oct 2022, 17:36

ljadw wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 16:51
peeved wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 16:08
ljadw wrote:
13 Oct 2022, 07:22
And, about western media : you wisely avoid to answer my quote of Colby ( former CIA chief ) who said in 1981:''The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media . ''
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunk ... media.158/

Markus
What said Metabunk ?
That ,following the CIA, they stopped to use journalists as spies in 1973 .
Before 1973 the CIA lied that they used journalists . After1973 they said that they stopped this , but there is no proof that they did not lie after 1973 . Thus,why should we believe the CIA ?
Kim Philby worked for MI6 and the Cheka,when he was a journalist .
In 1991 Richard Norton-Taylor said in the Guardian that 90 British journalists worked for the CIA .
The CIA would be very stupid not to use the media ,as the media are very glad to work for the CIA/MI5, FSB, of course not for free .
The claim that the media are free and independent is an old illusion : MI6 used in 1939 a journalist to attack Chamberlain's appeasement policy .MI5 tried in 1955 also to sabotage Eden's appeasement policy .
You are looking for pretexts to dismiss anything you do not like. You are the typical conspirationist who lives in his own alternate reality.

ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1067

Post by ljadw » 14 Oct 2022, 17:42

About the media : where does the Finnish TV get its information about wars in Ceylon, Birma ,Ukraine ?
Has it its own spy drones ? NO
Does it receive its information from the FSB ? NO
Does it receive its information from Reuter ? Maybe . But who is the source of Reuter ? Reuter also has no spy drones .
Remains : the CIA and the Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation services .
He who controls the information, controls the news .
RIAS,RFL worked for the CIA in the past .They work today also for the CIA.In the past they were funded by CIA, now by Congress . The difference is only semantic .
One of the missions of the CIA is to misinform ,manipulate public opinion .It does do it by using the media and Deep State ,of which it is a member . The others :MI5/6, BND, FSB,... do the same .


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Aida1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1068

Post by Aida1 » 14 Oct 2022, 18:52

ljadw wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 17:42
About the media : where does the Finnish TV get its information about wars in Ceylon, Birma ,Ukraine ?
Has it its own spy drones ? NO
Does it receive its information from the FSB ? NO
Does it receive its information from Reuter ? Maybe . But who is the source of Reuter ? Reuter also has no spy drones .
Remains : the CIA and the Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation services .
He who controls the information, controls the news .
RIAS,RFL worked for the CIA in the past .They work today also for the CIA.In the past they were funded by CIA, now by Congress . The difference is only semantic .
One of the missions of the CIA is to misinform ,manipulate public opinion .It does do it by using the media and Deep State ,of which it is a member . The others :MI5/6, BND, FSB,... do the same .
Another jumble of conspirationist nonsense. :lol: :lol: You see the CIA everywhere. Ridiculous.

Gooner1
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Location: London

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1069

Post by Gooner1 » 14 Oct 2022, 21:55

Aida1 wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 18:52

Another jumble of conspirationist nonsense. :lol: :lol: You see the CIA everywhere. Ridiculous.
You wait, in a few months time he'll be claiming Putin is a CIA agent.

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peeved
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1070

Post by peeved » 14 Oct 2022, 22:38

Gooner1 wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 21:55
Aida1 wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 18:52

Another jumble of conspirationist nonsense. :lol: :lol: You see the CIA everywhere. Ridiculous.
You wait, in a few months time he'll be claiming Putin is a CIA agent.
Or from MI6; sort of looks like a cross between Daniel Craig and guenon too.

Markus

Tom from Cornwall
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1071

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 14 Oct 2022, 23:25

I saw today that Oryx had corrected someone claiming a photo showed a recently destroyed Russian S300PT SAM battery when in fact it was already noted by their website as showing an Ukrainian loss from February 2022.

They will be in trouble with their CIA handlers! Yawn! Break out the tinfoil hats…

Regards

Tom

gebhk
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1072

Post by gebhk » 15 Oct 2022, 00:34

If the defender is demoralised or seriously outgunned are other examples.
It makes no difference, you will still lose more attacking him than if you defend against him. Indeed if you seriously outgun him, then you have all the more incentive to defend rather than attack if at all possible.
Defenders will sometimes lose heaviest when routed.
Absolutely but that is because they are not putting up a defence. This is predcisely the sort of payoff I am talking about. You attack because you are confident or at least hope that you will be able to collapse your enemy's defence and carve him up in the aftermath. The cost of attacking the enemy are compensated by the casualties you will inflict upon him after your attack is successfully completed.

Peter89
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1073

Post by Peter89 » 15 Oct 2022, 07:17

ljadw wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 17:42
About the media : where does the Finnish TV get its information about wars in Ceylon, Birma ,Ukraine ?
Has it its own spy drones ? NO
Does it receive its information from the FSB ? NO
Does it receive its information from Reuter ? Maybe . But who is the source of Reuter ? Reuter also has no spy drones .
Remains : the CIA and the Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation services .
He who controls the information, controls the news .
RIAS,RFL worked for the CIA in the past .They work today also for the CIA.In the past they were funded by CIA, now by Congress . The difference is only semantic .
One of the missions of the CIA is to misinform ,manipulate public opinion .It does do it by using the media and Deep State ,of which it is a member . The others :MI5/6, BND, FSB,... do the same .
I mean... really. You have no clue how journalism work.

Worldwide medias work with three kinds of sources. First is continous coverage, like most financial journals have an office or an employee based in EMEA, Americas and Asia. Second is employing freelance journalists, like Keno Verseck who covers Hungary, Romania and now Ukraine for German newspapers. Third is networking, like one media manager met another media manager at a conference, and they call each other when they have to cover an event in each others' country, to provide them with leads and relevant sources.

For the sources: of course it depends on the quality of the media. As I am coming from Hungary which language is not taught at all anywhere in the world, the foreign correspondents mostly talk to sources who speak English or German, or their respective language. This creates a serious problem when it comes to refined opinions, and it is true in multinational companies as well as in media and statecraft. Of course, the mastery of the language alone is not enough, one has to have an intimate knowledge about the country's history, culture and everyday life as well. However, such people are extremely hard to come by, especially with the necessary writing skills.

What you rave about the secret services borders insanity. The secret services will not knock on a youtuber's door or a television's door and demand to talk to the editor. This is... well, no comment. The pro-Ukrainian leaning in the mainstream Western media is stemming from two factors. One is the pressure from below, the pressure of the reading/viewer public which was truly shocked and outraged when Russia invaded Ukraine. The other is the pressure from above, because political and economic influence over the media is pushing it to present facts that support Ukraine's view. Also the militaries feed false information to the independent sources as well, which does not question their independency, but their trustworthiness.
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1074

Post by ljadw » 15 Oct 2022, 07:38

Aida1 wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 18:52
ljadw wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 17:42
About the media : where does the Finnish TV get its information about wars in Ceylon, Birma ,Ukraine ?
Has it its own spy drones ? NO
Does it receive its information from the FSB ? NO
Does it receive its information from Reuter ? Maybe . But who is the source of Reuter ? Reuter also has no spy drones .
Remains : the CIA and the Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation services .
He who controls the information, controls the news .
RIAS,RFL worked for the CIA in the past .They work today also for the CIA.In the past they were funded by CIA, now by Congress . The difference is only semantic .
One of the missions of the CIA is to misinform ,manipulate public opinion .It does do it by using the media and Deep State ,of which it is a member . The others :MI5/6, BND, FSB,... do the same .
Another jumble of conspirationist nonsense. :lol: :lol: You see the CIA everywhere. Ridiculous.
As usual no intelligent reply .
The CIA is everywhere.
Of course you never heard of the magazine Encounter which received CIA money,or of the role of Gehlen ( of the BND ) a very close ally of the CIA in the complot against Franz Josef Strauss.
In 2014 it leaked out that an BND agent had helped the NSA to eavesdrop Angela Merkel .
And 20 years ago the CIA kidnapped with the help of the local secret services hundreds of people in Europe and transported them to Guantanamo .
Do I see the CIA everywhere ?
The CIA spied also on US Congress .
Do I see the CIA everywhere ?
The Brussels Times from February 2020 : ''The CIA and the BND spied on Belgium during almost 30 years . ''
Do I see the CIA everywhere ?
And, of course, you never heard of Gladio ?

ljadw
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Posts: 15588
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1075

Post by ljadw » 15 Oct 2022, 07:57

Peter89 wrote:
15 Oct 2022, 07:17
ljadw wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 17:42
About the media : where does the Finnish TV get its information about wars in Ceylon, Birma ,Ukraine ?
Has it its own spy drones ? NO
Does it receive its information from the FSB ? NO
Does it receive its information from Reuter ? Maybe . But who is the source of Reuter ? Reuter also has no spy drones .
Remains : the CIA and the Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation services .
He who controls the information, controls the news .
RIAS,RFL worked for the CIA in the past .They work today also for the CIA.In the past they were funded by CIA, now by Congress . The difference is only semantic .
One of the missions of the CIA is to misinform ,manipulate public opinion .It does do it by using the media and Deep State ,of which it is a member . The others :MI5/6, BND, FSB,... do the same .
I mean... really. You have no clue how journalism work.

Worldwide medias work with three kinds of sources. First is continous coverage, like most financial journals have an office or an employee based in EMEA, Americas and Asia. Second is employing freelance journalists, like Keno Verseck who covers Hungary, Romania and now Ukraine for German newspapers. Third is networking, like one media manager met another media manager at a conference, and they call each other when they have to cover an event in each others' country, to provide them with leads and relevant sources.

For the sources: of course it depends on the quality of the media. As I am coming from Hungary which language is not taught at all anywhere in the world, the foreign correspondents mostly talk to sources who speak English or German, or their respective language. This creates a serious problem when it comes to refined opinions, and it is true in multinational companies as well as in media and statecraft. Of course, the mastery of the language alone is not enough, one has to have an intimate knowledge about the country's history, culture and everyday life as well. However, such people are extremely hard to come by, especially with the necessary writing skills.

What you rave about the secret services borders insanity. The secret services will not knock on a youtuber's door or a television's door and demand to talk to the editor. This is... well, no comment. The pro-Ukrainian leaning in the mainstream Western media is stemming from two factors. One is the pressure from below, the pressure of the reading/viewer public which was truly shocked and outraged when Russia invaded Ukraine. The other is the pressure from above, because political and economic influence over the media is pushing it to present facts that support Ukraine's view. Also the militaries feed false information to the independent sources as well, which does not question their independency, but their trustworthiness.
You know very well that one can not trust what journalists are writing,because they wast their time with drinking and chasing women and the articles they write have as source other journalists and officials, thus twice not trustworthy persons . See the NYT in the thirties .
Media ( written or not ) are commercial enterprises with as aim to make money, not to tell the truth .The written media are dying ,the fate of the others is not better .The media survive only because of publicity .And an intelligent dog will not bite the hand which is feeding him .
It is very easy to tell a newspaper what to write and what not to write :Lloyd George and his predecessors and successors bought editors with knighthoods,peerages and OBEs . The French governments used the Legion of Honor .And then : there are the scoops .Journalists would kill their mother for a scoop .
And the CIA and the others use money,a lot of money to bribe journalists and politicians .
Journalists of Der Spiegel worked for the BND.
There was Chase Brandon : CIA agent in Hollywood , the involvement of the CIA in the filming of Patriot Games ,etc,......

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Aida1
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Joined: 04 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Brussels

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1076

Post by Aida1 » 15 Oct 2022, 08:05

ljadw wrote:
15 Oct 2022, 07:57
Peter89 wrote:
15 Oct 2022, 07:17
ljadw wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 17:42
About the media : where does the Finnish TV get its information about wars in Ceylon, Birma ,Ukraine ?
Has it its own spy drones ? NO
Does it receive its information from the FSB ? NO
Does it receive its information from Reuter ? Maybe . But who is the source of Reuter ? Reuter also has no spy drones .
Remains : the CIA and the Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation services .
He who controls the information, controls the news .
RIAS,RFL worked for the CIA in the past .They work today also for the CIA.In the past they were funded by CIA, now by Congress . The difference is only semantic .
One of the missions of the CIA is to misinform ,manipulate public opinion .It does do it by using the media and Deep State ,of which it is a member . The others :MI5/6, BND, FSB,... do the same .
I mean... really. You have no clue how journalism work.

Worldwide medias work with three kinds of sources. First is continous coverage, like most financial journals have an office or an employee based in EMEA, Americas and Asia. Second is employing freelance journalists, like Keno Verseck who covers Hungary, Romania and now Ukraine for German newspapers. Third is networking, like one media manager met another media manager at a conference, and they call each other when they have to cover an event in each others' country, to provide them with leads and relevant sources.

For the sources: of course it depends on the quality of the media. As I am coming from Hungary which language is not taught at all anywhere in the world, the foreign correspondents mostly talk to sources who speak English or German, or their respective language. This creates a serious problem when it comes to refined opinions, and it is true in multinational companies as well as in media and statecraft. Of course, the mastery of the language alone is not enough, one has to have an intimate knowledge about the country's history, culture and everyday life as well. However, such people are extremely hard to come by, especially with the necessary writing skills.

What you rave about the secret services borders insanity. The secret services will not knock on a youtuber's door or a television's door and demand to talk to the editor. This is... well, no comment. The pro-Ukrainian leaning in the mainstream Western media is stemming from two factors. One is the pressure from below, the pressure of the reading/viewer public which was truly shocked and outraged when Russia invaded Ukraine. The other is the pressure from above, because political and economic influence over the media is pushing it to present facts that support Ukraine's view. Also the militaries feed false information to the independent sources as well, which does not question their independency, but their trustworthiness.
You know very well that one can not trust what journalists are writing,because they wast their time with drinking and chasing women and the articles they write have as source other journalists and officials, thus twice not trustworthy persons . See the NYT in the thirties .
Media ( written or not ) are commercial enterprises with as aim to make money, not to tell the truth .The written media are dying ,the fate of the others is not better .The media survive only because of publicity .And an intelligent dog will not bite the hand which is feeding him .
It is very easy to tell a newspaper what to write and what not to write :Lloyd George and his predecessors and successors bought editors with knighthoods,peerages and OBEs . The French governments used the Legion of Honor .And then : there are the scoops .Journalists would kill their mother for a scoop .
And the CIA and the others use money,a lot of money to bribe journalists and politicians .
Journalists of Der Spiegel worked for the BND.
There was Chase Brandon : CIA agent in Hollywood , the involvement of the CIA in the filming of Patriot Games ,etc,......
You are showcasing your conspirationism again and looking for pretexts to disregard all types of information and replace it with your personal opinions based on nothing at all.
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=44dd72b7 ... VzLw&ntb=1
Last edited by Aida1 on 15 Oct 2022, 09:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Aida1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1077

Post by Aida1 » 15 Oct 2022, 08:08

ljadw wrote:
15 Oct 2022, 07:38
Aida1 wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 18:52
ljadw wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 17:42
About the media : where does the Finnish TV get its information about wars in Ceylon, Birma ,Ukraine ?
Has it its own spy drones ? NO
Does it receive its information from the FSB ? NO
Does it receive its information from Reuter ? Maybe . But who is the source of Reuter ? Reuter also has no spy drones .
Remains : the CIA and the Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation services .
He who controls the information, controls the news .
RIAS,RFL worked for the CIA in the past .They work today also for the CIA.In the past they were funded by CIA, now by Congress . The difference is only semantic .
One of the missions of the CIA is to misinform ,manipulate public opinion .It does do it by using the media and Deep State ,of which it is a member . The others :MI5/6, BND, FSB,... do the same .
Another jumble of conspirationist nonsense. :lol: :lol: You see the CIA everywhere. Ridiculous.
As usual no intelligent reply .
The CIA is everywhere.
Of course you never heard of the magazine Encounter which received CIA money,or of the role of Gehlen ( of the BND ) a very close ally of the CIA in the complot against Franz Josef Strauss.
In 2014 it leaked out that an BND agent had helped the NSA to eavesdrop Angela Merkel .
And 20 years ago the CIA kidnapped with the help of the local secret services hundreds of people in Europe and transported them to Guantanamo .
Do I see the CIA everywhere ?
The CIA spied also on US Congress .
Do I see the CIA everywhere ?
The Brussels Times from February 2020 : ''The CIA and the BND spied on Belgium during almost 30 years . ''
Do I see the CIA everywhere ?
And, of course, you never heard of Gladio ?
You throw together a lot things together and then deduce something that is completely incorrect. At the end of the day you see conspiracies everywhere. :lol:
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=4ad93227 ... xNTc&ntb=1
Last edited by Aida1 on 15 Oct 2022, 09:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Aida1
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Posts: 4506
Joined: 04 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Brussels

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1078

Post by Aida1 » 15 Oct 2022, 08:18

gebhk wrote:
15 Oct 2022, 00:34
If the defender is demoralised or seriously outgunned are other examples.
It makes no difference, you will still lose more attacking him than if you defend against him. Indeed if you seriously outgun him, then you have all the more incentive to defend rather than attack if at all possible.
Defenders will sometimes lose heaviest when routed.
Absolutely but that is because they are not putting up a defence. This is predcisely the sort of payoff I am talking about. You attack because you are confident or at least hope that you will be able to collapse your enemy's defence and carve him up in the aftermath. The cost of attacking the enemy are compensated by the casualties you will inflict upon him after your attack is successfully completed.
You are completely wrong here. If you have a massive fire superiority you will potentially literally either so obliterate the defender in his positions that the attack could become a walkover or so demoralise the defender that he surrenders or runs away.
You are seriously simplifying when you think the defender being routed at some point is a foregone conclusion and happens because he does not defend itself. You can find many battles in the past where the attacker had less casualties because at some point the defender collapsed after heavy resistance.

ljadw
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Posts: 15588
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1079

Post by ljadw » 15 Oct 2022, 09:47

Peter89 wrote:
15 Oct 2022, 07:17
ljadw wrote:
14 Oct 2022, 17:42
About the media : where does the Finnish TV get its information about wars in Ceylon, Birma ,Ukraine ?
Has it its own spy drones ? NO
Does it receive its information from the FSB ? NO
Does it receive its information from Reuter ? Maybe . But who is the source of Reuter ? Reuter also has no spy drones .
Remains : the CIA and the Ukrainian propaganda and disinformation services .
He who controls the information, controls the news .
RIAS,RFL worked for the CIA in the past .They work today also for the CIA.In the past they were funded by CIA, now by Congress . The difference is only semantic .
One of the missions of the CIA is to misinform ,manipulate public opinion .It does do it by using the media and Deep State ,of which it is a member . The others :MI5/6, BND, FSB,... do the same .
I mean... really. You have no clue how journalism work.

Worldwide medias work with three kinds of sources. First is continous coverage, like most financial journals have an office or an employee based in EMEA, Americas and Asia. Second is employing freelance journalists, like Keno Verseck who covers Hungary, Romania and now Ukraine for German newspapers. Third is networking, like one media manager met another media manager at a conference, and they call each other when they have to cover an event in each others' country, to provide them with leads and relevant sources.

For the sources: of course it depends on the quality of the media. As I am coming from Hungary which language is not taught at all anywhere in the world, the foreign correspondents mostly talk to sources who speak English or German, or their respective language. This creates a serious problem when it comes to refined opinions, and it is true in multinational companies as well as in media and statecraft. Of course, the mastery of the language alone is not enough, one has to have an intimate knowledge about the country's history, culture and everyday life as well. However, such people are extremely hard to come by, especially with the necessary writing skills.

What you rave about the secret services borders insanity. The secret services will not knock on a youtuber's door or a television's door and demand to talk to the editor. This is... well, no comment. The pro-Ukrainian leaning in the mainstream Western media is stemming from two factors. One is the pressure from below, the pressure of the reading/viewer public which was truly shocked and outraged when Russia invaded Ukraine. The other is the pressure from above, because political and economic influence over the media is pushing it to present facts that support Ukraine's view. Also the militaries feed false information to the independent sources as well, which does not question their independency, but their trustworthiness.
There is no proof that the public was shocked and outraged when Russia invaded Ukraine .
People in Latin America, Africa ,... were not shocked or outraged . Most of them did not know about Ukraine .
I have no clue how journalists work ?
Not long ago ,the NYT published a scoop : the Russians paid the Taliban to kill US soldiers in Afghanistan . Than,it leaked out that this was a CIA lie .
If the NYT knew this ,they willingly and knowingly were telling lies .
If the NYT did not know it,they were totally incompetent .

ljadw
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Posts: 15588
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#1080

Post by ljadw » 15 Oct 2022, 10:18

And the WAPO, Reuters, USATODAY repeated this fake news .
This is only one example of media lies .History of the media is a collection of lies .
Austria : Ibizagate
The Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal
Jimmy Savile
The Guardian 13 February 2022 :
''according to data from Edelman's annual trust barometer, 56 % of Americans agree with the statement that ''journalists and reporters are purposely trying to mislead people by saying things they know are false or gross exaggerations .''''
Journalists do as politicians and as the CIA, FSB, MI6 ,.....

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