news from Russo-Ukraine Front

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Tom Peters
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2461

Post by Tom Peters » 02 Feb 2023, 20:21

ljadw wrote:
02 Feb 2023, 19:20
How much of the equipment that was promised was delivered?
And the equipment that was delivered arrived AFTER the Russian failure .
Poland has 247 Leo2s and promise to deliver,without saying when , 14 Leos .
Is that a serious promise or an empty promise ?
Can you tell us which promises you feel have not been fulfilled ?

Mad Dog

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2462

Post by Cult Icon » 02 Feb 2023, 21:00

" Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev as part of a working trip visited JSC "State Machine-Building Design Bureau "Raduga" "

"JSC "State Design Bureau "Raduga" named after A.Y. Bereznyak" is a Russian design bureau specializing in the development and production of cruise missiles for various purposes. It is located in the city of Dubna, Moscow Region."

https://vk.com/milinfolive?w=wall-123538639_3414816

various Russian cruise missiles on display. Medvedev is the 'Albert Speer' of the Russian Federation:

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2463

Post by Cult Icon » 02 Feb 2023, 21:06

Crew of SP 240mm heavy mortar

https://vk.com/bo_reserve?w=wall-124751034_6544

the new X-69 Stealth Cruise missile

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2464

Post by Cult Icon » 02 Feb 2023, 21:14

Overhead view of the Northern pincer of the Wagner assault with geolocated photographs:

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The (currently) unconfirmed Russian advance towards Lyman:

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ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2465

Post by ljadw » 02 Feb 2023, 21:29

Tom Peters wrote:
02 Feb 2023, 20:21
ljadw wrote:
02 Feb 2023, 19:20
How much of the equipment that was promised was delivered?
And the equipment that was delivered arrived AFTER the Russian failure .
Poland has 247 Leo2s and promise to deliver,without saying when , 14 Leos .
Is that a serious promise or an empty promise ?
Can you tell us which promises you feel have not been fulfilled ?

Mad Dog

ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2466

Post by ljadw » 02 Feb 2023, 22:01

To say after one year of war : we will give you 6 % of our tanks (14 of 247 Leo2s that Poland has ),without specifying when and without specifying in what condition they are,is not only an empty promise but it is simply deceit . The Polish deputy Minister of Defense said that it would take 3 months before the 14 Polish Leos reached Ukraine ,which means that the chances that they will ever reach Ukraine are practically 0 (Reuters 29 January )
To say till last week (as did Biden, Austin and Mulley ) we will not send any tanks to Ukraine (and if there was no need for the US to send Abrams ,there was no need for European countries to send Leos )and to say (as did Austin and Mulley ) that the Abrams were not the right vehicles for the fight in Ukraine right now ,and then suddenly making a turn of 360 degrees and saying :we will send 31 Abrams to Ukraine ,makes your promises totally unbelievable .
Or they lied when they said : no Abrams for Ukraine , or they lie when they say : we will send Abrams to Ukraine .
US has 8000 Abrams ,not all operational , but still promise to send to Ukraine only 31 Abrams ,0,4 % of the total and admit that it could last a year before they will arrive .
If Biden, Austin and Mulley were sincere ,these 31 Abrams would be ready today and be in Ukraine next week .
If there was any need to send Abrams tanks to Ukraine ( which there was not ) everything had to be ready when Biden said that these tanks were needed in Ukraine .
But: nothing was ready ... thus .

mezsat2
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2467

Post by mezsat2 » 03 Feb 2023, 02:35

ljadw wrote:
02 Feb 2023, 22:01
To say after one year of war : we will give you 6 % of our tanks (14 of 247 Leo2s that Poland has ),without specifying when and without specifying in what condition they are,is not only an empty promise but it is simply deceit . The Polish deputy Minister of Defense said that it would take 3 months before the 14 Polish Leos reached Ukraine ,which means that the chances that they will ever reach Ukraine are practically 0 (Reuters 29 January )
To say till last week (as did Biden, Austin and Mulley ) we will not send any tanks to Ukraine (and if there was no need for the US to send Abrams ,there was no need for European countries to send Leos )and to say (as did Austin and Mulley ) that the Abrams were not the right vehicles for the fight in Ukraine right now ,and then suddenly making a turn of 360 degrees and saying :we will send 31 Abrams to Ukraine ,makes your promises totally unbelievable .
Or they lied when they said : no Abrams for Ukraine , or they lie when they say : we will send Abrams to Ukraine .
US has 8000 Abrams ,not all operational , but still promise to send to Ukraine only 31 Abrams ,0,4 % of the total and admit that it could last a year before they will arrive .
If Biden, Austin and Mulley were sincere ,these 31 Abrams would be ready today and be in Ukraine next week .
If there was any need to send Abrams tanks to Ukraine ( which there was not ) everything had to be ready when Biden said that these tanks were needed in Ukraine .
But: nothing was ready ... thus .

Quite probably NATO has shifted into something of a war type stance. Any weapons deployed will be highly classified and their nature inaccessible to the public.

CogCalgary
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2468

Post by CogCalgary » 03 Feb 2023, 02:58

Don't worry YouTube will have it.

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2469

Post by Cult Icon » 03 Feb 2023, 05:09

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Tom Peters
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2470

Post by Tom Peters » 03 Feb 2023, 05:48

ljadw wrote:
02 Feb 2023, 22:01
To say after one year of war : we will give you 6 % of our tanks (14 of 247 Leo2s that Poland has ),without specifying when and without specifying in what condition they are,is not only an empty promise but it is simply deceit . The Polish deputy Minister of Defense said that it would take 3 months before the 14 Polish Leos reached Ukraine ,which means that the chances that they will ever reach Ukraine are practically 0 (Reuters 29 January )
To say till last week (as did Biden, Austin and Mulley ) we will not send any tanks to Ukraine (and if there was no need for the US to send Abrams ,there was no need for European countries to send Leos )and to say (as did Austin and Mulley ) that the Abrams were not the right vehicles for the fight in Ukraine right now ,and then suddenly making a turn of 360 degrees and saying :we will send 31 Abrams to Ukraine ,makes your promises totally unbelievable .
Or they lied when they said : no Abrams for Ukraine , or they lie when they say : we will send Abrams to Ukraine .
US has 8000 Abrams ,not all operational , but still promise to send to Ukraine only 31 Abrams ,0,4 % of the total and admit that it could last a year before they will arrive .
If Biden, Austin and Mulley were sincere ,these 31 Abrams would be ready today and be in Ukraine next week .
If there was any need to send Abrams tanks to Ukraine ( which there was not ) everything had to be ready when Biden said that these tanks were needed in Ukraine .
But: nothing was ready ... thus .
So, if I understand you correctly, its not that you doubt that some tanks will be sent, its just that they should be sending more, and faster ?

Thank you for supporting Ukraine.

Mad Dog

ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2471

Post by ljadw » 03 Feb 2023, 09:10

Tom Peters wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 05:48
ljadw wrote:
02 Feb 2023, 22:01
To say after one year of war : we will give you 6 % of our tanks (14 of 247 Leo2s that Poland has ),without specifying when and without specifying in what condition they are,is not only an empty promise but it is simply deceit . The Polish deputy Minister of Defense said that it would take 3 months before the 14 Polish Leos reached Ukraine ,which means that the chances that they will ever reach Ukraine are practically 0 (Reuters 29 January )
To say till last week (as did Biden, Austin and Mulley ) we will not send any tanks to Ukraine (and if there was no need for the US to send Abrams ,there was no need for European countries to send Leos )and to say (as did Austin and Mulley ) that the Abrams were not the right vehicles for the fight in Ukraine right now ,and then suddenly making a turn of 360 degrees and saying :we will send 31 Abrams to Ukraine ,makes your promises totally unbelievable .
Or they lied when they said : no Abrams for Ukraine , or they lie when they say : we will send Abrams to Ukraine .
US has 8000 Abrams ,not all operational , but still promise to send to Ukraine only 31 Abrams ,0,4 % of the total and admit that it could last a year before they will arrive .
If Biden, Austin and Mulley were sincere ,these 31 Abrams would be ready today and be in Ukraine next week .
If there was any need to send Abrams tanks to Ukraine ( which there was not ) everything had to be ready when Biden said that these tanks were needed in Ukraine .
But: nothing was ready ... thus .
So, if I understand you correctly, its not that you doubt that some tanks will be sent, its just that they should be sending more, and faster ?

Thank you for supporting Ukraine.

Mad Dog
I do not support Ukraine, I am neutral .
I only point out that one should not believe the promises from the Western leaders who first said : NO tanks for Ukraine and than made a turn of 360 degrees and said : we will send a few tanks to Ukraine , but it will takes a year for them to arrive .
This is only deceit .
Daily Mail ( not a Putin supporter ) on 26 January :
''Biden's promise to send 31 Abrams could take up to a year ."
If your house is on fire and you call for help and the Fire Brigade answers : we will come with 2 men,but it will take a week before we will arrive .
What would be your reaction ?

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Aida1
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2472

Post by Aida1 » 03 Feb 2023, 10:05

ljadw wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 09:10
Tom Peters wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 05:48
ljadw wrote:
02 Feb 2023, 22:01
To say after one year of war : we will give you 6 % of our tanks (14 of 247 Leo2s that Poland has ),without specifying when and without specifying in what condition they are,is not only an empty promise but it is simply deceit . The Polish deputy Minister of Defense said that it would take 3 months before the 14 Polish Leos reached Ukraine ,which means that the chances that they will ever reach Ukraine are practically 0 (Reuters 29 January )
To say till last week (as did Biden, Austin and Mulley ) we will not send any tanks to Ukraine (and if there was no need for the US to send Abrams ,there was no need for European countries to send Leos )and to say (as did Austin and Mulley ) that the Abrams were not the right vehicles for the fight in Ukraine right now ,and then suddenly making a turn of 360 degrees and saying :we will send 31 Abrams to Ukraine ,makes your promises totally unbelievable .
Or they lied when they said : no Abrams for Ukraine , or they lie when they say : we will send Abrams to Ukraine .
US has 8000 Abrams ,not all operational , but still promise to send to Ukraine only 31 Abrams ,0,4 % of the total and admit that it could last a year before they will arrive .
If Biden, Austin and Mulley were sincere ,these 31 Abrams would be ready today and be in Ukraine next week .
If there was any need to send Abrams tanks to Ukraine ( which there was not ) everything had to be ready when Biden said that these tanks were needed in Ukraine .
But: nothing was ready ... thus .
So, if I understand you correctly, its not that you doubt that some tanks will be sent, its just that they should be sending more, and faster ?

Thank you for supporting Ukraine.

Mad Dog
I do not support Ukraine, I am neutral .
I only point out that one should not believe the promises from the Western leaders who first said : NO tanks for Ukraine and than made a turn of 360 degrees and said : we will send a few tanks to Ukraine , but it will takes a year for them to arrive .
This is only deceit .
Daily Mail ( not a Putin supporter ) on 26 January :
''Biden's promise to send 31 Abrams could take up to a year ."
If your house is on fire and you call for help and the Fire Brigade answers : we will come with 2 men,but it will take a week before we will arrive .
What would be your reaction ?
You are being silly again and far from neutral. Promises towards the Ukraine have been kept and countries can hardly send all their tanks and delivering new production would take even longer. What is done, is what is realisticaly possible. Western weapons have been a great help for the Ukraine.

ljadw
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2473

Post by ljadw » 03 Feb 2023, 13:10

Proof that Western weapons have been a great help for Ukraine ?
Austin and Mulley said that the Abram tank is not the right tank for the war in Ukraine, which means that the Abram tank will not help Ukraine . Thus there is no need to send Abram tanks to Ukraine . It will only benefit General Dynamics and its accomplices at Capitol Hill .

Sid Guttridge
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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2474

Post by Sid Guttridge » 03 Feb 2023, 13:28

Hi ljadw,

There is plenty of proof (not just evidence) that western weapons have helped Ukraine. The recaptured territory littered with modern Russian tanks knocked out by hand held anti-tank missiles is proof of this. The HIMARS missile systems had a significant impact on forcing the Russian withdrawal from Kherson by interdicting their supply bottlenecks. French Cesar guns seem to have been the tipping point for Russia to evacuate Snake Island. The Russian Black Sea Fleet has barely entered the western Black Sea since Harpoon missiles were announced.

The fact that the Abrams is not the optimal tank for Ukraine doesn't prevent it being a decided asset.

However, none of this means that Ukraine will regain its lost territory, just, hopefully, that it will survive as a nation.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#2475

Post by Gooner1 » 03 Feb 2023, 14:19

Sid Guttridge wrote:
03 Feb 2023, 13:28

The fact that the Abrams is not the optimal tank for Ukraine doesn't prevent it being a decided asset.

However, none of this means that Ukraine will regain its lost territory, just, hopefully, that it will survive as a nation.

Cheers,

Sid.
The major 'issue' with the Abrams is that all the US models have depleted uranium as part of their armour package. The US supplies no depleted uranium armoured Abrams to any of their Allies/customers and won't want any examples of which falling into hostile hands. So the wait while new builds or rebuilds are supplied without, export customers getting added tungsten armour instead.

Remembring that General Zaluzhny wanted 300 tanks, 600-700 IFVs and 500 artillery, the commonsense division of responsibility, which must have been brought up at Ramstein, would be for Europe to provide most of the tanks, the US to provide most of the IFVs and the artillery to be split between them.

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