Can you tell us which promises you feel have not been fulfilled ?
Mad Dog
Can you tell us which promises you feel have not been fulfilled ?
Tom Peters wrote: ↑02 Feb 2023, 20:21Can you tell us which promises you feel have not been fulfilled ?
Mad Dog
ljadw wrote: ↑02 Feb 2023, 22:01To say after one year of war : we will give you 6 % of our tanks (14 of 247 Leo2s that Poland has ),without specifying when and without specifying in what condition they are,is not only an empty promise but it is simply deceit . The Polish deputy Minister of Defense said that it would take 3 months before the 14 Polish Leos reached Ukraine ,which means that the chances that they will ever reach Ukraine are practically 0 (Reuters 29 January )
To say till last week (as did Biden, Austin and Mulley ) we will not send any tanks to Ukraine (and if there was no need for the US to send Abrams ,there was no need for European countries to send Leos )and to say (as did Austin and Mulley ) that the Abrams were not the right vehicles for the fight in Ukraine right now ,and then suddenly making a turn of 360 degrees and saying :we will send 31 Abrams to Ukraine ,makes your promises totally unbelievable .
Or they lied when they said : no Abrams for Ukraine , or they lie when they say : we will send Abrams to Ukraine .
US has 8000 Abrams ,not all operational , but still promise to send to Ukraine only 31 Abrams ,0,4 % of the total and admit that it could last a year before they will arrive .
If Biden, Austin and Mulley were sincere ,these 31 Abrams would be ready today and be in Ukraine next week .
If there was any need to send Abrams tanks to Ukraine ( which there was not ) everything had to be ready when Biden said that these tanks were needed in Ukraine .
But: nothing was ready ... thus .
So, if I understand you correctly, its not that you doubt that some tanks will be sent, its just that they should be sending more, and faster ?ljadw wrote: ↑02 Feb 2023, 22:01To say after one year of war : we will give you 6 % of our tanks (14 of 247 Leo2s that Poland has ),without specifying when and without specifying in what condition they are,is not only an empty promise but it is simply deceit . The Polish deputy Minister of Defense said that it would take 3 months before the 14 Polish Leos reached Ukraine ,which means that the chances that they will ever reach Ukraine are practically 0 (Reuters 29 January )
To say till last week (as did Biden, Austin and Mulley ) we will not send any tanks to Ukraine (and if there was no need for the US to send Abrams ,there was no need for European countries to send Leos )and to say (as did Austin and Mulley ) that the Abrams were not the right vehicles for the fight in Ukraine right now ,and then suddenly making a turn of 360 degrees and saying :we will send 31 Abrams to Ukraine ,makes your promises totally unbelievable .
Or they lied when they said : no Abrams for Ukraine , or they lie when they say : we will send Abrams to Ukraine .
US has 8000 Abrams ,not all operational , but still promise to send to Ukraine only 31 Abrams ,0,4 % of the total and admit that it could last a year before they will arrive .
If Biden, Austin and Mulley were sincere ,these 31 Abrams would be ready today and be in Ukraine next week .
If there was any need to send Abrams tanks to Ukraine ( which there was not ) everything had to be ready when Biden said that these tanks were needed in Ukraine .
But: nothing was ready ... thus .
I do not support Ukraine, I am neutral .Tom Peters wrote: ↑03 Feb 2023, 05:48So, if I understand you correctly, its not that you doubt that some tanks will be sent, its just that they should be sending more, and faster ?ljadw wrote: ↑02 Feb 2023, 22:01To say after one year of war : we will give you 6 % of our tanks (14 of 247 Leo2s that Poland has ),without specifying when and without specifying in what condition they are,is not only an empty promise but it is simply deceit . The Polish deputy Minister of Defense said that it would take 3 months before the 14 Polish Leos reached Ukraine ,which means that the chances that they will ever reach Ukraine are practically 0 (Reuters 29 January )
To say till last week (as did Biden, Austin and Mulley ) we will not send any tanks to Ukraine (and if there was no need for the US to send Abrams ,there was no need for European countries to send Leos )and to say (as did Austin and Mulley ) that the Abrams were not the right vehicles for the fight in Ukraine right now ,and then suddenly making a turn of 360 degrees and saying :we will send 31 Abrams to Ukraine ,makes your promises totally unbelievable .
Or they lied when they said : no Abrams for Ukraine , or they lie when they say : we will send Abrams to Ukraine .
US has 8000 Abrams ,not all operational , but still promise to send to Ukraine only 31 Abrams ,0,4 % of the total and admit that it could last a year before they will arrive .
If Biden, Austin and Mulley were sincere ,these 31 Abrams would be ready today and be in Ukraine next week .
If there was any need to send Abrams tanks to Ukraine ( which there was not ) everything had to be ready when Biden said that these tanks were needed in Ukraine .
But: nothing was ready ... thus .
Thank you for supporting Ukraine.
Mad Dog
You are being silly again and far from neutral. Promises towards the Ukraine have been kept and countries can hardly send all their tanks and delivering new production would take even longer. What is done, is what is realisticaly possible. Western weapons have been a great help for the Ukraine.ljadw wrote: ↑03 Feb 2023, 09:10I do not support Ukraine, I am neutral .Tom Peters wrote: ↑03 Feb 2023, 05:48So, if I understand you correctly, its not that you doubt that some tanks will be sent, its just that they should be sending more, and faster ?ljadw wrote: ↑02 Feb 2023, 22:01To say after one year of war : we will give you 6 % of our tanks (14 of 247 Leo2s that Poland has ),without specifying when and without specifying in what condition they are,is not only an empty promise but it is simply deceit . The Polish deputy Minister of Defense said that it would take 3 months before the 14 Polish Leos reached Ukraine ,which means that the chances that they will ever reach Ukraine are practically 0 (Reuters 29 January )
To say till last week (as did Biden, Austin and Mulley ) we will not send any tanks to Ukraine (and if there was no need for the US to send Abrams ,there was no need for European countries to send Leos )and to say (as did Austin and Mulley ) that the Abrams were not the right vehicles for the fight in Ukraine right now ,and then suddenly making a turn of 360 degrees and saying :we will send 31 Abrams to Ukraine ,makes your promises totally unbelievable .
Or they lied when they said : no Abrams for Ukraine , or they lie when they say : we will send Abrams to Ukraine .
US has 8000 Abrams ,not all operational , but still promise to send to Ukraine only 31 Abrams ,0,4 % of the total and admit that it could last a year before they will arrive .
If Biden, Austin and Mulley were sincere ,these 31 Abrams would be ready today and be in Ukraine next week .
If there was any need to send Abrams tanks to Ukraine ( which there was not ) everything had to be ready when Biden said that these tanks were needed in Ukraine .
But: nothing was ready ... thus .
Thank you for supporting Ukraine.
Mad Dog
I only point out that one should not believe the promises from the Western leaders who first said : NO tanks for Ukraine and than made a turn of 360 degrees and said : we will send a few tanks to Ukraine , but it will takes a year for them to arrive .
This is only deceit .
Daily Mail ( not a Putin supporter ) on 26 January :
''Biden's promise to send 31 Abrams could take up to a year ."
If your house is on fire and you call for help and the Fire Brigade answers : we will come with 2 men,but it will take a week before we will arrive .
What would be your reaction ?
The major 'issue' with the Abrams is that all the US models have depleted uranium as part of their armour package. The US supplies no depleted uranium armoured Abrams to any of their Allies/customers and won't want any examples of which falling into hostile hands. So the wait while new builds or rebuilds are supplied without, export customers getting added tungsten armour instead.Sid Guttridge wrote: ↑03 Feb 2023, 13:28
The fact that the Abrams is not the optimal tank for Ukraine doesn't prevent it being a decided asset.
However, none of this means that Ukraine will regain its lost territory, just, hopefully, that it will survive as a nation.
Cheers,
Sid.