news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Discussions on other historical eras.
Locked
Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3736

Post by Tom Peters » 24 Mar 2023, 05:16

ljadw wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 13:03

1 Russian tanks are sent to European Russia,there is no proof that they are going to Ukraine .
Why would RU expend the resources to renovate these tanks if not to send them to battle ?
ljadw wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 13:03
2 Russia also is not a world power
Sure is. Nukes.
ljadw wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 13:03
3 The M-55 S is an other name for the vintage Soviet T-55 and can thus not be superior to the Russian T-55
Wrong again. Its a massively upgraded T55 to western standards. Go to wikipedia if you want the details.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong ?
ljadw wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 13:03
6 Russia was not totally unprepared or even unprepared : more manpower and more tanks would not have given Russia more chances to win ,as the outcome of the war depended on the Ukrainians .
Better planning and execution and more forces could of taken Kiev and might of forced the govt to collapse. Maybe.
ljadw wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 13:03
You continue to hide,deny,throw under the bus,underestimate 2 facts
1 The Ukrainian war is not the Blitzkrieg of 1940 ( if he existed )
I never denied it. Care to find a post where I do ?
ljadw wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 13:03
2 The outcome of the war will be decided not by military but by civilians :by a political decision .
Maybe. Maybe not. Hard to tell.

Mad Dog

Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3737

Post by Tom Peters » 24 Mar 2023, 05:53

Cult Icon wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 15:39
The Russian project to convert their peacetime army to a large-scale warfare army with divisions is slated for a 2026 completion date.

According to the Ukrainian military over the past year they have converted 3 units into divisions and deployed them in Ukraine in positional warfare on the Svatove-Kreminna front:

3rd Motor-rifle division
144th Motor-rifle division

2nd Motor-rifle division has been in the rear for months.

These divisions are meant to defend Russia against NATO and perform decisive operations in Ukraine.
I guess those T-54 are slated for these new "divisions". Those will work real well against the NATO boogeyman.
Cult Icon wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 15:39
But before this project is completed, the war may be over with a peace deal through China as the Ukrainian army is worn down past the point of return in a few months.
You have been saying that for a while. Just like Bahkmut has been falling for 6 months.
Cult Icon wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 15:39
So Russia wouldn't need to use thousands of tanks and divisions at all. If there is no peace deal over the longer term there will be a ground offensive with many divisions.
Sure, those T-54 will come in handy given that RU has lost thousands of tanks and apparently has run out of T-90/80/72/62.

Mad Dog


Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8251
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3738

Post by Michael Kenny » 24 Mar 2023, 06:47

Tom Peters wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 05:53
You have been saying that for a while. Just like Bahkmut has been falling for 6 months.
'Saying' things like this?
Tom Peters wrote:
13 Sep 2022, 03:21
............. the RU continue to paw pitifully at a few blocks of terrain near Bahkmut. What a contrast !

User avatar
Yuri
Member
Posts: 1969
Joined: 01 Jun 2006, 12:24
Location: Russia

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3739

Post by Yuri » 24 Mar 2023, 08:29

Tom Peters wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 05:53
Cult Icon wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 15:39
The Russian project to convert their peacetime army to a large-scale warfare army with divisions is slated for a 2026 completion date.

According to the Ukrainian military over the past year they have converted 3 units into divisions and deployed them in Ukraine in positional warfare on the Svatove-Kreminna front:

3rd Motor-rifle division
144th Motor-rifle division

2nd Motor-rifle division has been in the rear for months.

These divisions are meant to defend Russia against NATO and perform decisive operations in Ukraine.
I guess those T-54 are slated for these new "divisions". Those will work real well against the NATO boogeyman.
Cult Icon wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 15:39
But before this project is completed, the war may be over with a peace deal through China as the Ukrainian army is worn down past the point of return in a few months.
You have been saying that for a while. Just like Bahkmut has been falling for 6 months.
Cult Icon wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 15:39
So Russia wouldn't need to use thousands of tanks and divisions at all. If there is no peace deal over the longer term there will be a ground offensive with many divisions.
Sure, those T-54 will come in handy given that RU has lost thousands of tanks and apparently has run out of T-90/80/72/62.

Mad Dog
To create new divisions in a short time, a large number of combat training equipment will be required. It is unreasonable to use new military equipment in the training process to train crews and conduct a large number of exercises at different levels: platoon, company, battalion, regiment, division.
A fully trained division must conduct at least four divisional-level exercises (division on the offensive during the day, division on the defensive during the day, division on the offensive at night, division on the defensive at night).
In one such exercise, the tank will pass at least 250 km.
Such a number of exercises is necessary at the regiment level.
At the regiment level exercise, the tank will pass- 120-150 km.
There should be twice as many battalion-level exercises. There are even more exercises at the company and platoon level.
To create in a short time the declared number of new divisions during the training period, 1500-2000 tanks will be required.
A T-55/54 tank is a very good solution for this.
In the Russian, and then the Workers' and Peasants' Red Army, there was such a saying:
"Война - хуйня, главное манёвры" = (approximately and without using an obscene expression , you can translate as follows) = "The war is bullshit, the main thing is maneuvers" (Here the word "war" is synonymous with the word "shooting").
This is the first.
Secondly, there is a great need for special armored vehicles, for example, bridge-laying trucks, tow trucks, tanks for clearing terrain, platforms for installing anti-aircraft guns, for example, type 23 mm ZSU-23-2 or 57 mm S-60, etc.

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15588
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3740

Post by ljadw » 24 Mar 2023, 10:28

Tom Peters wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 05:16
ljadw wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 13:03

1 Russian tanks are sent to European Russia,there is no proof that they are going to Ukraine .
Why would RU expend the resources to renovate these tanks if not to send them to battle ?
ljadw wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 13:03
2 Russia also is not a world power
Sure is. Nukes.
ljadw wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 13:03
3 The M-55 S is an other name for the vintage Soviet T-55 and can thus not be superior to the Russian T-55
Wrong again. Its a massively upgraded T55 to western standards. Go to wikipedia if you want the details.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong ?
ljadw wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 13:03
6 Russia was not totally unprepared or even unprepared : more manpower and more tanks would not have given Russia more chances to win ,as the outcome of the war depended on the Ukrainians .
Better planning and execution and more forces could of taken Kiev and might of forced the govt to collapse. Maybe.
ljadw wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 13:03
You continue to hide,deny,throw under the bus,underestimate 2 facts
1 The Ukrainian war is not the Blitzkrieg of 1940 ( if he existed )
I never denied it. Care to find a post where I do ?
ljadw wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 13:03
2 The outcome of the war will be decided not by military but by civilians :by a political decision .
Maybe. Maybe not. Hard to tell.

Mad Dog
1 Proof that Russia is renovating these tanks ?
2 Having nukes does not make you a world power : Israel has nukes but is not a world power
3 An upgraded T 55 of 40 years + remains a tank of 40 years + and upgrading changes nothing .
4 Better planning ( always this idee fixe ) and execution would change nothing . More manpower would have changed nothing (the bigger the forces the slower the advance )
5 You give tanks a bigger role than they had in WW2 : Abrams, M-55S , Challenger, Leo, ...T55 , while they have in this war only a marginal role:on Russian side they were massively committed ( 2000 ) to substitute the shortage of infantry and they had no operationally decisive role ,as it was not needed to go to the border with Poland ,impossible to go to the border with Poland .
The past WW2 theory that the fall of the capital (here Kiew ) would decide the outcome of the war has been debunked by the facts : no country in WW2 gave up because the fall of its capital .
The fall of Kiew would not cause the collaps of the Ukrainian government ,but the elimination of the Ukrainian government would cause the fall of Kiew .
The 28 Slovakian M-55 S will have no influence at all on the outcome of this war . It is the same for the Abrams, for the Challenger.
The Ukrainians stopped and repelled the Russians without the US and UK tanks ,even without US and UK help .
They did not need GD ,they did not need Lockheed Martin .

ljadw
Member
Posts: 15588
Joined: 13 Jul 2009, 18:50

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3741

Post by ljadw » 24 Mar 2023, 10:52

Tom Peters wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 05:53
Cult Icon wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 15:39
The Russian project to convert their peacetime army to a large-scale warfare army with divisions is slated for a 2026 completion date.

According to the Ukrainian military over the past year they have converted 3 units into divisions and deployed them in Ukraine in positional warfare on the Svatove-Kreminna front:

3rd Motor-rifle division
144th Motor-rifle division

2nd Motor-rifle division has been in the rear for months.

These divisions are meant to defend Russia against NATO and perform decisive operations in Ukraine.
I guess those T-54 are slated for these new "divisions". Those will work real well against the NATO boogeyman.
Cult Icon wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 15:39
But before this project is completed, the war may be over with a peace deal through China as the Ukrainian army is worn down past the point of return in a few months.
You have been saying that for a while. Just like Bahkmut has been falling for 6 months.
Cult Icon wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 15:39
So Russia wouldn't need to use thousands of tanks and divisions at all. If there is no peace deal over the longer term there will be a ground offensive with many divisions.
Sure, those T-54 will come in handy given that RU has lost thousands of tanks and apparently has run out of T-90/80/72/62.

Mad Dog
Apparently is not an argument and what you are claiming is debunked by The Kyiv Independent from September 1 2022,which writes under the headline " How many tanks does Russia really have ? ''

'' 1 We can not expect Russia to run critically low on tanks anytime soon .
2 Despite heavy losses Russia has enough machines to continue waging its war for years ''
The T-90/80/72/62 did not better than the T 55 because their role was not to do better than other tanks and the very few Abrams and Challenger will not do better than the T 55,because their role is not to do better than other tanks .
Maybe ( but I have no illusion ) this will open the eyes of people in the West and prove that the claims of the tank lobby are only sales pitch as the claim that one can transform an old T 55 in a not old T 55 .

Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3742

Post by Tom Peters » 24 Mar 2023, 15:11

Michael Kenny wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 06:47
Tom Peters wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 05:53
You have been saying that for a while. Just like Bahkmut has been falling for 6 months.
'Saying' things like this?
Tom Peters wrote:
13 Sep 2022, 03:21
............. the RU continue to paw pitifully at a few blocks of terrain near Bahkmut. What a contrast !
RU continues to " paw pitifully at a few blocks of terrain near Bahkmut" like I said earlier. I was right then, and I am still right. They still havnt taken Bahkmut.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Mad Dog

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3743

Post by Cult Icon » 24 Mar 2023, 15:38

Image

"the command of the 58th Combined Arms Army of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation decided to inflict a massive fire defeat on the opened positions and warehouses of the enemy. The offensive was thwarted before it even began.

From 21.00 to midnight on March 22, hotels and schools used to accommodate personnel of both the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the recently formed assault brigade of the National Guard of Ukraine "Chervona Kalina" were hit in the city - in total, more than 20 targets were covered.

Several warehouses with ammunition, artillery shells, ATGMs, and equipment parking lots were put out of action.

It is estimated that the enemy's losses reach half a thousand people killed and wounded."
Last edited by Cult Icon on 24 Mar 2023, 15:52, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3744

Post by Cult Icon » 24 Mar 2023, 15:46

Yuri wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 08:29
To create new divisions in a short time, a large number of combat training equipment will be required. It is unreasonable to use new military equipment in the training process to train crews and conduct a large number of exercises at different levels: platoon, company, battalion, regiment, division.
I see the photograph of T-55 on rails is being used in the pro-Ukrainian propaganda war.

Wagner is a quite clever tool to generate a lot of combat power without the great cost and length of time it takes to create a division. It's just an army of squads and platoons, with training cycle of infantry just up to 6 weeks.

Even if the Wagner Group is destroyed along with the Ukrainian reserves it is not a big loss for the Russian command, but a strategic win.

The moment of truth is coming now. Ukaine moved 5 artillery brigades over to Bakhmut. Wagner's advances outside of the city have slowed down and it is likely that they are preparing for the defense.

Behind Bakhmut is the Wagner line, a one-echelon row of trenches and fortifications. There is also operational reserves in the Luhansk Oblast that could be moved over, in particular the 2nd Motor-rifle division.

The Ukrainian masses could either make a full attack and try to unblock Bakhmut completely or just facilitate a withdrawal of the garrison.

Or they could just hold the front outside of the city.

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8251
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3745

Post by Michael Kenny » 24 Mar 2023, 16:02

Tom Peters wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 15:11


RU continues to " paw pitifully at a few blocks of terrain near Bahkmut" like I said earlier. I was right then, and I am still right. They still havnt taken Bahkmut.


The claim you made that Russia was 'struggling' to take a few blocks of Bahkmut' implying Russia would not be able to capture the full city. This, as time has shown, is demonstrably false. Only the most demented Russian-haters refuse to face the inevitable.
I hear Zelenskyy is just finishing the fine detail of his planned counter-offensive and the orders will be sent sent to Steiner in the next few days.................

User avatar
dgfred
Member
Posts: 386
Joined: 31 Jan 2008, 17:56
Location: N.C., USA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3746

Post by dgfred » 24 Mar 2023, 16:28

Likely not many thought it would not fall. It was a matter of the cost/time/etc to take it. Which seems plenty.

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3747

Post by Cult Icon » 24 Mar 2023, 20:17

T-90M, possibly Wagner

Image

Image

"I worked today in the south of Bakhmut in the Sobachivka

area. The stormtroopers of the Wagner PMC continue to move confidently to the city center.

The fighting is already partly behind Mariupolska Street."

https://t.me/s/brussinf

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3748

Post by Cult Icon » 24 Mar 2023, 20:20

Western press near Bakhmut- I think this is in Chasiv Yar

Image

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3749

Post by Cult Icon » 24 Mar 2023, 21:48

"Russia wants demilitarized buffer zones in Ukraine, says Medvedev"

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... putin-ally

"We need to "throw out all the foreigners who are there in the broad sense of the word, create a buffer zone which would not allow the use of any types of weapons that work at medium and short distances, that is 70-100 kilometres, to demilitarise it," Medvedev said.

Russia would have to push further into Ukraine if such zones were not established, he said, taking Kyiv the capital or even the Western Ukrainian city of Lviv. Ukraine says it will never accept Russian occupation of its land."

Literally the same thing as the rumors of the China Peace Plan- turn Ukraine into the next Korea with DMZs.

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3750

Post by Cult Icon » 24 Mar 2023, 21:57

Image

Image

Locked

Return to “Other eras”