news from Russo-Ukraine Front

Discussions on other historical eras.
Locked
User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3751

Post by Cult Icon » 24 Mar 2023, 22:22

https://www.interfax.ru/russia/892494


"The Russian military-industrial complex will produce 1500 tanks this year, said Deputy Chairman of the Russian Security Council Dmitry Medvedev.

"Our enemies believed that our industry would suffocate, that is, we would spend everything - here are their endless conversations: "The shells ran out, the tanks ran out, the missiles ran out" and so on. We will make 1,500 tanks alone this year," he said in an interview with Russian news agencies.

Speaking about the current capabilities of the Russian military-industrial complex, Medvedev recalled that the authorities began to modernize this industry about fifteen years ago.

"Not everyone, by the way, agreed with this. I was still president, for example, and some of my colleagues said, "Don't do it." You know who I'm talking about. But unfortunately - I emphasize - unfortunately, I was right in this case, not those who were in favor of the cuts. Because if we approached this conflict with other armed forces and the military-industrial complex, then we would not be able to do anything at all," he said.

At the same time, the deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council noted that over the past year, the Russian military-industrial complex has changed even more, since "now it is already moving away from the need for a special military operation."

"The military-industrial complex is relaxed, it works actively, most enterprises (I say this firsthand, but because I travel through them) work in three shifts, works, as they say, from the wheels - directly gives everything to the troops, produces the most modern Russian types of weapons, and even in a situation where they are really trying to deprive us of components, to block oxygen in certain areas," Medvedev said."

"The most important thing is to produce all this now in the required volumes, and for this purpose new production facilities are launched. Yes, we did not think about it some time ago, but it became necessary to launch new arms production," the deputy chairman of the Security Council said.

In the context of the Great Patriotic War, Medvedev said that he had recently read Stalin's telegrams on the issues of the military-industrial complex. He did not disclose the contents of the documents read, explaining that he first wanted to "read these telegrams to the directors of our factories in order to cheer up."

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3752

Post by Cult Icon » 24 Mar 2023, 22:37

https://rutube.ru/video/f2c62573fc7ded0 ... 50a4425ef/

Wagner PMC: Zone of Redemption.

RT produced 50 minute documentary on convict stormtroopers in the battle of Bakhmut.


Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3753

Post by Tom Peters » 24 Mar 2023, 22:39

ljadw wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 10:28

1 Proof that Russia is renovating these tanks ?
Truly the mind boggles....

To your question, did you look at the pics of the T-54 on the train transporters ? They do not look to be in bad shape, the paint looks new and no obvious rusted out portions. The tracks look to be properly tightened.

Then we have the fact there are satellite pics of the tanks on a loading dock next to the rail transports. From this we can deduce the T-54 in question are capable of moving on their own.

So from our observations (mine at least, apparently you didnt bother), it would appear these tanks are in working condition.
ljadw wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 10:28
2 Having nukes does not make you a world power : Israel has nukes but is not a world power
RU is a world power. Nukes, big military, big economy, active foreign reach, etc etc.
ljadw wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 10:28
3 An upgraded T 55 of 40 years + remains a tank of 40 years + and upgrading changes nothing .
Nothing, except the M-55S is clearly superior to the baseline T-54/55. Big change. If you had to be a crewman in one, would you pick the baseline model, or the M-55S ?

Dont bother answering, we know the answer.
ljadw wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 10:28
5 You give tanks a bigger role than they had in WW2 : Abrams, M-55S , Challenger, Leo, ...T55 , while they have in this war only a marginal role:
No, thats your strawman, I never made that argument. In fact I clearly stated in a previous post that the introduction (for example) of 14 Challenger2 tanks in and of itself wasnt going to change itself.

RU introducing a few/some T-54/55 isnt going to change anything. But here is where you miss the point - RU being forced to use T-54/55 is a clear piece of evidence of the strategic bankruptcy of the RU command.

And it doesnt stop there ! If RU is having a hard time scraping up tanks from the last 40 years (T-72 and up), does this problem also apply to SPG such as artillery pieces ? How about other heavy equipment ?
ljadw wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 10:28
They did not need GD ,they did not need Lockheed Martin .
Thats very curious that you say that because the UKR government is doing precisely that when they ask for F-16 fighter jets, as well as more tanks.

But I guess you know better than the UKR government, right ?

Mad Dog

Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3754

Post by Tom Peters » 24 Mar 2023, 22:45

Yuri wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 08:29

To create new divisions in a short time, a large number of combat training equipment will be required. It is unreasonable to use new military equipment in the training process to train crews and conduct a large number of exercises at different levels: platoon, company, battalion, regiment, division.
Sure, if you want to train crew in basic tank operations like driving and gunnery, you could use the T-54 as a training tank. its better than sitting in a car making tank sounds. However, if you had the choice, wouldnt you be better off using a T-72, something they are more likely to use in battle ? After all there is a fairly big technical gap between a T-54 and a T-72. Comms, autoloader, gunnery sights, etc.
Yuri wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 08:29
Secondly, there is a great need for special armored vehicles, for example, bridge-laying trucks, tow trucks, tanks for clearing terrain, platforms for installing anti-aircraft guns, for example, type 23 mm ZSU-23-2 or 57 mm S-60, etc.
In other forums there are some arguments going on as to the purpose of the T-54. So far as the consensus, the most reasonable use for the T-54 is to convert it to an speciality vehicle, like bridging, or mine-clearing. However, wouldnt that happen at the tank plants in the east ?

Mad Dog

Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3755

Post by Tom Peters » 24 Mar 2023, 22:47

Cult Icon wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 15:46

I see the photograph of T-55 on rails is being used in the pro-Ukrainian propaganda war.
Rightfully so. Its a clear sign of the dismal depths the RU MOD has sunk to.
Cult Icon wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 15:46
Wagner is a quite clever tool to generate a lot of combat power without the great cost and length of time it takes to create a division. It's just an army of squads and platoons, with training cycle of infantry just up to 6 weeks.
Stop right there - what does the T-54 shipment have to do with Wagner ?

Mad Dog

Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3756

Post by Tom Peters » 24 Mar 2023, 22:52

Michael Kenny wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 16:02
The claim you made that Russia was 'struggling' to take a few blocks of Bahkmut' implying Russia would not be able to capture the full city.
No, it literally does not. "Struggling" to take a few blocks. They continue to "Struggle" to take Bahkmut.
Michael Kenny wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 16:02
This, as time has shown, is demonstrably false.
So RU already took Bakhmut ? They havnt been in starring in a 6 month clown show trying to take this small town ?

They struggled,
They are struggling,
They will struggle....

...to take Bahkmut. They will likely get it some day. I figured 2 weeks ago, but now, still hasnt happened.
Michael Kenny wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 16:02
Only the most demented Russian-haters refuse to face the inevitable.
What is inevitable ? RU taking Bahkmut ? They probably will.

So what ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v0rKdlbDyU
Michael Kenny wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 16:02
I hear Zelenskyy is just finishing the fine detail of his planned counter-offensive and the orders will be sent sent to Steiner in the next few days.................
There is no clear evidence of a counteroffensive at this time. Shame on your for believing either the UKR or RU MOD statements.

Mad Dog

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8251
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3757

Post by Michael Kenny » 24 Mar 2023, 23:35

Tom Peters wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 22:45


In other forums there are some arguments going on as to the purpose of the T-54. So far as the consensus, the most reasonable use for the T-54 is to convert it to an speciality vehicle, like bridging, or mine-clearing. However, wouldnt that happen at the tank plants in the east ?

There is a film clip of some naval turrets bolted on tank chassis being used as anti-drone AA. It seems they had the guns in storage and a lash-up was created. Looks very 'Heath Robinson' bit it works.

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 8251
Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
Location: Teesside

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3758

Post by Michael Kenny » 25 Mar 2023, 00:00

Tom Peters wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 22:52


So RU already took Bakhmut ? They havnt been in starring in a 6 month clown show trying to take this small town ?
It took the full might of the US Army along with total control of the air and unlimited precision munitions a full 6 weeks to take Falluja in November 2004. Their first attempt in April 2004 failed. Falluja was completely surrounded and held by c. 2000 'insurgents' with little more than small arms to defend themselves. The US managed to kill more civilians than 'insurgents' as well.
Bakhmut is a fortress in comparison but still it is (99%) certain the Russians will take it. The only unknown is how many Ukrainians will be killed and captured.

PunctuationHorror
Member
Posts: 133
Joined: 05 Jun 2021, 17:41
Location: America

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3759

Post by PunctuationHorror » 25 Mar 2023, 00:04

Michael Kenny wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 16:02
Tom Peters wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 15:11


RU continues to " paw pitifully at a few blocks of terrain near Bahkmut" like I said earlier. I was right then, and I am still right. They still havnt taken Bahkmut.


The claim you made that Russia was 'struggling' to take a few blocks of Bahkmut' implying Russia would not be able to capture the full city. This, as time has shown, is demonstrably false. Only the most demented Russian-haters refuse to face the inevitable.
I hear Zelenskyy is just finishing the fine detail of his planned counter-offensive and the orders will be sent sent to Steiner in the next few days.................
Image

Gooner1
Member
Posts: 2776
Joined: 06 Jan 2006, 13:24
Location: London

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3760

Post by Gooner1 » 25 Mar 2023, 01:21

Michael Kenny wrote:
25 Mar 2023, 00:00

Bakhmut is a fortress in comparison but still it is (99%) certain the Russians will take it.
I'll take a tenner at those odds, if you're game ?

Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3761

Post by Tom Peters » 25 Mar 2023, 01:32

Michael Kenny wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 23:35

There is a film clip of some naval turrets bolted on tank chassis being used as anti-drone AA. It seems they had the guns in storage and a lash-up was created. Looks very 'Heath Robinson' bit it works.
Definitely looks like a bit of a bodge, with the 25mm guns so high and to the rear. Unless the MTLB happens to be nose heavy, the whole thing might rock when the guns fire. It might be a decent anti-helicopter or drone weapon. Maybe.

Mad Dog

Tom Peters
Member
Posts: 1545
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 22:18
Location: GA

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3762

Post by Tom Peters » 25 Mar 2023, 01:34

Michael Kenny wrote:
25 Mar 2023, 00:00

It took the full might of the US Army along with total control of the air and unlimited precision munitions a full 6 weeks to take Falluja in November 2004. Their first attempt in April 2004 failed. Falluja was completely surrounded and held by c. 2000 'insurgents' with little more than small arms to defend themselves. The US managed to kill more civilians than 'insurgents' as well.
Bakhmut is a fortress in comparison but still it is (99%) certain the Russians will take it. The only unknown is how many Ukrainians will be killed and captured.
Full might ? Not so. I might also add the US took far more pains to control civ casualties than the RU ideal of flattening everything with artillery.

I would add another unknown to the RU calculus: how many RU casualties.

Mad Dog

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3763

Post by Cult Icon » 25 Mar 2023, 01:36

The battle of Bakhmut is closer to scale to the battle of Stalingrad. Ukraine cycled some 40 brigades/equivalents on the Bakhmut-Soledar-Siversk fronts and it is looking like the counteroffensive has brought more into the fray. It is a strategic failure for Ukraine.

The propagandized coverage in the US/UK media conceals this.

Mariupol, while a much larger city, involved only a low percentage of the forces.

Gooner1
Member
Posts: 2776
Joined: 06 Jan 2006, 13:24
Location: London

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3764

Post by Gooner1 » 25 Mar 2023, 01:44

dgfred wrote:
24 Mar 2023, 16:28
Likely not many thought it would not fall. It was a matter of the cost/time/etc to take it. Which seems plenty.
Dunno. Six months ago it wasn't obvious that Putin would, as Jens Stoltenberg said the other day, ""just throw in thousands and thousands more troops, to take many casualties for minimal gains”.

Ukraine's Western supporters are, perhaps, guilty for allowing aid to tail off in the latter part of 2022. This has been and is being corrected, the fruits of which are yet to be felt at the front.
On the Russian side it remains to be seen if they can cope with the continuing high casualties without further mobilisation measures and for how long they can blaze away what is likely a weeks worth of shell production, every day ....

Gooner1
Member
Posts: 2776
Joined: 06 Jan 2006, 13:24
Location: London

Re: news from Russo-Ukraine Front

#3765

Post by Gooner1 » 25 Mar 2023, 01:48

Cult Icon wrote:
25 Mar 2023, 01:36
The battle of Bakhmut is closer to scale to the battle of Stalingrad.
Hmmm ... signs of nervousness among the pro Russian f*lth that they are comparing Bakhmut to Stalingrad ...

Locked

Return to “Other eras”