World War III?

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ljadw
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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 17 Sep 2022 05:20

wm wrote:
16 Sep 2022 18:22
ljadw wrote:
16 Sep 2022 06:00
US had til the launch of the Sputnik a nuclear monopoly: they could destroy the USSR and Europe ,while the Soviets could not attack US cities because they had no ICBMs and no bombers who could attack DC,etc,and return . Thus a conventional Soviet attack in Europe was not possible .
This was the nuclear umbrella .
All this changed with the Sputnik,because the launching of the Sputnik meant that the Soviets had now the means to build ICBMs .
The Tu-4 possessed sufficient range to attack Chicago or Los Angeles on a one-way mission since 1949.
The Tu-95 Bear was available since 1952.
The R-13 SLBM was available since 1959.
A one way mission means : no return .
Besides the Soviets had no long range fighters to protect their bombers .

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wm
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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 17 Sep 2022 07:33

The Americans didn't have them either. And planned their own one-missions too.

ljadw
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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 17 Sep 2022 12:51

wm wrote:
17 Sep 2022 07:33
The Americans didn't have them either. And planned their own one-missions too.
US air bases were much closer to the USSR .

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wm
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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 17 Sep 2022 16:44

Not close enough.

ljadw
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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 17 Sep 2022 20:56

US bombers could nuke Leningrad and Moscow and safely return to Norway and Turkey .Soviet bombers could not nuke NYC,LA, Chicago and safely return to the USSR .

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wm
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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 17 Sep 2022 21:48

Combat radius of the Tu-85 (1951) with a single atom bomb taking off from Anadyr.
On a one-way mission, it could comfortably bomb New York or the Panama Canal.
Anadyr.jpg
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wm
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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 18 Sep 2022 13:17

Combat radius of the Tu-85 (1951) with a single atom bomb taking off in the Nordwestmecklenburg district (East Germany).
With an additional fuel tank (in its second bomb bay), it would be a piece of cake.
New York.png
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ljadw
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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 18 Sep 2022 15:10

And how would they return to their base ?

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wm
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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 18 Sep 2022 17:05

I don't know. Maybe as it happened at Hiroshima, they would make a U-turn and go home or just continue to Anadyr.

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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 19 Sep 2022 07:04

And what is the distance (going and returning ) from Anadyr to NYC ?
How long would it take to go to NYC and to return ?
Had the Soviets bombers that had enough fuel to do this ?
How long could a pilot control his aircraft ?
The Soviets had no long distance bombers and used instead missiles .
The distance Seattle-NYC is 3,865 km .X 2 = 7730 .
distance Anadyr-Seattle is 4000 km X 2 = 8000 km -
What would be the average speed of a Russian bomber flying from Anadyr to NYC?
How would the pilot know that he was going in the right direction ?
Had the Soviets in 1951,or later, an aircraft that was capable to fly 16000 km ?
And what about the US air defense ?

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wm
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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 19 Sep 2022 08:44

Absurd questions designed to drown the subject at hand in nonsense.
There were two pilots, and a navigator too. The navigator was well versed in so-called celestial navigation.

"had no long-distance bombers" is beyond ignorance.

ljadw
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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 19 Sep 2022 10:00

I see that you avoid to answer the question if Soviet bombers had enough fuel to fly 16000 km in 1951 .
And ,what is your proof for the claim that the navigator was well (what is well ? ) versed in celestial navigation = in flying during night over the Pacific Ocean ?

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wm
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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 19 Sep 2022 13:03

I'm amazed at your ignorance.
At that time, everybody and his dog used celestial navigation (astronavigation) - at night, over the Pacific Ocean, and actually over the entire world - especially the British during the nighttime raids over Germany.
For that, most bombers were equipped with astrodomes.

Below, He-177's astrodome:
Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1972-065-68,_Flugzeug_Heinkel_He_177_A-7.jpg

The Tu-85's range was 7468 mi with a 5-ton bomb. Only 6 percent shorter than the B-36's.
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ljadw
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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 19 Sep 2022 13:20

We are not talking about the British and Germans, but about the capacity of the Soviet Air Force in 1951. And we know that til 1945 this air force was used for short distance ground-attack missions to support the army and not as a strategic weapon that had an independent role .
The allied air forces attacked Silesia,the Russian air force did not attack the Ruhr .
It is on you to prove now that 6 years after the war the Soviet air force was radically changed and could now start strategic missions and attack the US on its own .
The Missile Gap myth after 1957, invented for financial and political reasons,was a claim that the Soviets were building a very big number of missiles that could carry nuclear weapons and reach the US .No one was talking about a bomber gap.Because the Soviet Air Force had no bombers that could do what was claimed the missiles could do .

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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 19 Sep 2022 13:36

In WW2 Deep Interdiction Missions were only 5 % of all Soviet combat missions .
And the results were not very convincing .
It was the same for the LW .
Source :Soviet Interdiction Operations . By rand.org.

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