World War III?

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wm
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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 19 Sep 2022 13:59

Nice argument from ignorance.

Are you aware that the largest Soviet plane in the thirties - the ANT-20, had a 50 percent longer wingspan than the B-29? And had a similar max takeoff weight.
That, in the thirties, the TB-3 heavy bomber was capable of bombing Berlin, and the Soviets had 800 (if I remember correctly) of them?
That the Pe-8s actually bombed Berlin many times. And one of them took Molotov from Moscow to London and then to Washington?
Can you spot its astrodome?
Pe-8.jpg
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Last edited by wm on 19 Sep 2022 15:36, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: World War III?

Post by Aida1 » 19 Sep 2022 14:18

wm wrote:
19 Sep 2022 13:03
I'm amazed at your ignorance.
At that time, everybody and his dog used celestial navigation (astronavigation) - at night, over the Pacific Ocean, and actually over the entire world - especially the British during the nighttime raids over Germany.
For that, most bombers were equipped with astrodomes.

Below, He-177's astrodome:
Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1972-065-68,_Flugzeug_Heinkel_He_177_A-7.jpg


The Tu-85's range was 7468 mi with a 5-ton bomb. Only 6 percent shorter than the B-36's.
Ljadw seems to be always digging holes for himself. A bit of googling would save him from making foolish statements.

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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 19 Sep 2022 14:33

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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 19 Sep 2022 18:43

It was estimated that the plane was capable of Moscow-Panama trans-polar flight without stopping.
Gromov.png
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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 19 Sep 2022 18:54

What is the distance LA-NY ?
A Soviet aircraft,flying at an average speed of 100 miles ,crashed in California .What was the direction of that aircraft ?NY ?
Did the aircraft fly from Moscow to Panama ?
Estimate without fact is proving nothing .
During the war the Soviet aircraft was confined for 95 % to short range ground-support missions .
After the launching of the Sputnik,nuclear bombs were produced for missiles, not for long range attacks by bombers .
The Democrats never talked about a bomber gap, but about a missile gap .
The Soviets had not the equivalent of a B 52.
The air attacks on Berlin did not start from Moscow,but from airfields close to the German bomber .

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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 19 Sep 2022 19:02

The air distance between Moscow and Edinburgh is 1560 miles,the distance between NY and the coast of Siberia is a multiple .And that the aircraft with Molotov was going from London to NY ,after having been refueled in London,does not mean that in 1951 the Soviets had an aircraft that could fly from Siberia to NY, nuke NY and return without refueling ,to Siberia . Or do you think that after nuking NY, the Soviet aircraft would stop at La Guardia for refueling ?

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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 20 Sep 2022 20:23

By 1954-55, not only did the U.S.S.R. have an estimated stockpile of 200 atomic bombs and a few hydrogen bombs, but more importantly, U.S. intelligence indicated that the Soviets had built enough M-Type Bison and TU-95 Bear intercontinental bombers to deliver them on the U.S.
NSC (141 Jan.1953) concluded that 65% to 85% of the bombs would reach their targets in the U.S.
To Win a Nuclear War: The Pentagon's Secret War by Michio Kaku, Daniel Axelrod

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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 20 Sep 2022 20:50

And why should we believe these persons who after the Sputnik launching,invented the Missile Gap ?
They lied about the danger of the Soviet missiles, thus they lied also about the danger of the Soviet bombers .
Langley and Fort Meade intentionally exaggerated the Soviet danger,from the beginning on .

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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 20 Sep 2022 20:53

Besides : if the Soviets had enough bombers to destroy the US, why did they spend billions on missiles to do the same job ?

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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 20 Sep 2022 21:11

And,what I know of Kaku and Axelrod ,does not inspire confidence :their book (To win a nuclear war ) was praised by Ramsey Clark, the friend of the Vietcong and supporter of Milosevic and Saddam Hussein .

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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 20 Sep 2022 21:47

Have you told Putin his fifty five TU-95 Bears are useless?
Because he believes that they, with their 15000 km range, could do it.

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Re: World War III?

Post by Aida1 » 21 Sep 2022 08:17

ljadw wrote:
20 Sep 2022 21:11
And,what I know of Kaku and Axelrod ,does not inspire confidence :their book (To win a nuclear war ) was praised by Ramsey Clark, the friend of the Vietcong and supporter of Milosevic and Saddam Hussein .
"You always find excuses not to read any book. Anyway,there are sources enough to contradict you.

The Assistant Chief of Staff, Intelligence, USAF believed in 1963 that chances of Soviet bombers reaching North American targets would be 300/750, which is 40%.

http://history.state.gov/historicaldocu ... 130#fnref6

130. National Intelligence Estimate1

Washington, March 22, 1963.

NIE 11-4-63

SOVIET MILITARY CAPABILITIES AND POLICIES, 1962-1967

(snip)

The Assistant Chief of Staff, Intelligence, USAF, does not consider that this paragraph accurately reflects the capability of the USSR to put aircraft over North America on two-way missions. He believes that with due consideration of all relevant factors, such as number of aircraft in Long Range Aviation, numbers of aircraft tanker configured and peak availability rate, the Soviets could commit about 750 aircraft to initial two-way attacks on North America. From this number committed, about 300 bombers could reach North American targets."

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=fdf1a58e ... RtbA&ntb=1

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Re: World War III?

Post by ljadw » 21 Sep 2022 16:32

The Assistant Chief of Staff,Intelligence, USAF,BELIEVES .
Under the bus with military who have no proofs, but believe .
The USAF wanted more $ and to obtain more $ ,the USAF produced alarming reports based on beliefs .
The panick-monger had no proofs that the Soviets had 750 longrange-aircraft .
If there was a nuclear war in 1962,the Soviets would attack the US with the few ICBMs they had .Some 20 operational in 196o . US had 170 in 1962 .
If the Soviets had 750 longrange bombers, they would not build ICBMs .
20 ICBMs were sufficient to destroy the US ,

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wm
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Re: World War III?

Post by wm » 21 Sep 2022 17:45

According to Soviet Strategic Bombers by Jason Moore and Russian Wikipedia:
Tu-4 entered service in 1949, 

Tu-16 (max. speed Mach 0.9) in 1954,
Tu-95 (the one that dropped Tsar Bomba) in 1956.

They had 847 Tu-4s in 1952 and 30 Tu-95s in 1957.

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Re: World War III?

Post by Aida1 » 21 Sep 2022 19:10

ljadw wrote:
21 Sep 2022 16:32
The Assistant Chief of Staff,Intelligence, USAF,BELIEVES .
Under the bus with military who have no proofs, but believe .
The USAF wanted more $ and to obtain more $ ,the USAF produced alarming reports based on beliefs .
The panick-monger had no proofs that the Soviets had 750 longrange-aircraft .
If there was a nuclear war in 1962,the Soviets would attack the US with the few ICBMs they had .Some 20 operational in 196o . US had 170 in 1962 .
If the Soviets had 750 longrange bombers, they would not build ICBMs .
20 ICBMs were sufficient to destroy the US ,
As usual you put anybody under the bus who does not share your unsupported purely personal opninons.

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