Stalin and the Creation of DDR

Discussions on other historical eras.
User avatar
Oleg Grigoryev
Member
Posts: 5051
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 20:06
Location: Russia

Stalin and the Creation of DDR

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 15 Mar 2002 21:09

It is generally true that the various first-hand accounts of Soviet policy on Germany and of the GDR's origins become fully clear only when viewed in context. Individual quotations, which are frequently available to us only in fragmentary form, tell us little about the intentions of the actors and essentially nothing about the constancy or inconstancy of their views unless we know the context from which they stem. On the other hand, corroborative passages in parallel texts dispel doubts as to the meanings of individual statements. Many events and contexts are first illuminated only through comparing different sources. In this way, it first comes to light by such a comparison of internal discussions and public pronouncements that the Communist functionaries hardly thought any differently from how they spoke in public and that they were persuaded of the possibility of persuading others with their words. A study of the source materials covering a period of several years demonstrates above all that there was great consistency in Stalin's thinking. At the same time, it can be seen that other actors pursued thoroughly independent conceptions.
Overall, the comparative analysis of new sources leads to findings which will surprise many: Stalin wanted no GDR. He wanted neither a separate state in the Soviet Occupation Zone nor a socialist state in Germany at all. Instead, he sought a parliamentary democracy for all of Germany, one which would rob fascism of its social base and one which would allow the Soviet Union access to the resources of the Ruhr industrial area. This was to be achieved through the shared responsibility of the victorious powers. The separatist socialist GDR is above all a product of Walter Ulbricht's revolutionary zeal, which was able to unfold given the background of the Western walling-off policy.


Wilfried Loth " Stalin's Unwanted Child" The Soviet Union, The German question and the Creation of the GDR".

No here is the subject to explore... :?:

User avatar
wildboar
Member
Posts: 210
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 12:15
Location: India

Stalin - the bloody tyrant cannot be that humane?

Post by wildboar » 24 Mar 2002 11:20

Oleg,
Stalin wanted no GDR. He wanted neither a separate state in the Soviet Occupation Zone nor a socialist state in Germany at all. Instead, he sought a parliamentary democracy for all of Germany, one which would rob fascism of its social base and one which would allow the Soviet Union access to the resources of the Ruhr industrial area

Agreed that it was stalin's aim to have access to the resources of the ruhr industrial area but this does not absolve stalin of his dubious role crime of grabbing of german land of east prussia by expelling german

Infact stalin planned to deport all germans of soviet zone of germany and eastern prussia to siberia as slave labours but sheer no of them and logistical limitation of soviet transport system forced stalin to abandon his plan also timely action by ADMIRAL KARL DONITZ saved many germans from stalin's montorous plans

in fact i disagree with the view that stalin wanted parliamentry democracy for entire germany since stalin was forced to create DDR since he was unable to carry out his monstorous plan for germany

Also i disagree with the view that The separatist socialist GDR is above all a product of Walter Ulbricht's revolutionary zeal, since he and his communist collegue's were nothing but stalin's stooge and lacked any mass or popular support to win any election in parliamentry democracy so it nothing but typical stalinist propoganda to absolve stalin of his all crimes ,in fact without soviet support and soviet army to defend it communist government would not had survived a single day in soviet zone of germany which proves that DDR was stalin's concept which was implemented by ulbricht his stooge

Infact it tries to paint a picture of stalin who had humane approach towrds germans which is completely false and not real

Oleg can you give some more details of source's

User avatar
Oleg Grigoryev
Member
Posts: 5051
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 20:06
Location: Russia

Re: Stalin - the bloody tyrant cannot be that humane?

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 24 Mar 2002 11:52

wildboar wrote:Oleg,
Stalin wanted no GDR. He wanted neither a separate state in the Soviet Occupation Zone nor a socialist state in Germany at all. Instead, he sought a parliamentary democracy for all of Germany, one which would rob fascism of its social base and one which would allow the Soviet Union access to the resources of the Ruhr industrial area

Agreed that it was stalin's aim to have access to the resources of the ruhr industrial area but this does not absolve stalin of his dubious role crime of grabbing of german land of east prussia by expelling german
Part ion of Germany was agreed upon by all allies –it was not an improvisation on part of Stalin - I don't see why is it criminal.

Infact stalin planned to deport all germans of soviet zone of germany and eastern prussia to siberia as slave labours but sheer no of them and logistical limitation of soviet transport system forced stalin to abandon his plan also timely action by ]ADMIRAL KARL DONITZ saved many germans from stalin's montorous plans[/b] May I see the source you got this information from? And could you elaborate on details?

in fact i disagree with the view that stalin wanted parliamentry democracy for entire germany since stalin was forced to create DDR since he was unable to carry out his monstorous plan for germany
Rather well-known German historian (hat would be the Author of the book Wilfried Loth) disagrees with you. Interestingly enough he does not mentions any plan of moving Germans to Siberia –even though his research relies heavily on Soviet and GDR archival documents.


Also i disagree with the view that The separatist socialist GDR is above all a product of Walter Ulbricht's revolutionary zeal, since he and his communist collegue's were nothing but stalin's stooge and lacked any mass or popular support to win any election in parliamentry democracy so it nothing but typical stalinist propoganda to absolve stalin of his all crimes ,in fact without soviet support and soviet army to defend it communist government would not had survived a single day in soviet zone of germany which proves that DDR was stalin's concept which was implemented by ulbricht his stooge Actually it does not anything since you did not prove your first statement (“in fact without soviet support and soviet army to defend it communist government would not had survived a single day”) which makes it a logical fallacy of PETITIO PRINCIPII type. Btw I think Herr Loth would be surpriesed by the fact that he is pawn of Stalinist propoganda. Care to prove that?

Infact it tries to paint a picture of stalin who had humane approach towrds germans which is completely false and not real] No it does not. It paints the picture of Stalin having his political agenda under which it seemed desirable to have politically neutral unified Germany.

Oleg can you give some more details of source's


Stalin's Unwanted Child : The Soviet Union, the German Question and the Founding of the Gdr
by Wilfried Loth, Robert F. Hogg (Translator) ISBN 0-312-21028-0 The book was published in Germany in 1994 and in GB and USA in 1998

Return to “Other eras”