List your Top Ten U.S. Presidents Of All Time

Discussions on other historical eras.
Docent P
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#16

Post by Docent P » 14 Oct 2003, 13:18

I'd like to put Rony atop of all. Due to the reasons mentioned here and also - his excellent work on Afghanistan. A hundred of Stingers let the Resistance forces defeat the Soviets which directly led to the crush of the Soviet Union (Afghan defeat IMHO played a rather bigger role than the propagandist space war project). Afghanistan became the first country in the world ever liberated from Communism!

Meanwhile I'm a little surprised that noone has mentioned John Kennedy (Carribean crisis) and Ike Eisenhower(victory in the Korean War, creating of nuclear shield). Are these guys viewed critically in the US?

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fdewaele
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#17

Post by fdewaele » 14 Oct 2003, 16:38

Jack Nisley wrote:Why do you think Al Gore would have been a good president?
1. Gore would no employ voodo economics like Bush did (tax cuts for the rich, debt, beholden to big business)
2. Gore would not have isolated the USA in world diplomacy as Bush has.
3. Gore would fight the right battles against terrorism (Al Qaeda) instead of hunting for oil and revenge.

Gore is a moderate/main stream politician whereas Bush is a right wing conservative.


Docent P
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Location: Canada

#18

Post by Docent P » 15 Oct 2003, 12:51

>2. Gore would not have isolated the USA in world diplomacy as Bush has.

In the Clinton's administration this "mainstream" politician took the key position on the Russia's direction. All the history of Gore's relations with Russia is the story full of shame, failures and simply idiocies. The situation had been so preferable for the US as never else. After the brilliant Rony's campaign of economical pressure on the SU this totalitarian monster began transformation and in 1992 there appeared very few people in the government ready to change the regime to more democratic and seeing more benefits to ally with the USA than to fight them. Meanwhile there were very strong pro-American feelings within the Russian population. All what Clinton (and Gore) needed was to continue the workable Reagan's policy - to press Commie orthodoxes and to support anti-communist minded Russian society. Gore managed to do exactly the opposite.

His so callled "Gore-Chernomyrdin agreement" will remain an unaproachable top of human's idiocy for centuries. The subject was: the US give the Kremlin very many dollars and in exchange it stops it's arm dealing with Iran and other American enemies. The idiocy of this act is evident but Ffrthermore Gore managed to it even stupider (I know it may sound unbelievable) - he signed a "secret agreement", it was covered from American taxpayers, Russian society, world community etc. It was the worst thing Americans could do. The results were immediately - Russian weapon trading with rogue regimes not only decreased but grew up. Not only with Iran (that is already completing it's first nuclear station) and China (that has bought 8 nuclear modern strike submarines similar to Akula class, several destroyers and frigates and now is developing it's own aircarrier with Russian friends' help) but with Iraq (that Russia was fighting alongside with new American friends in 1991), Northern Korea (has already declared about own nuclear weapons) and even HAMAS and Taliban (explosives used in the actions against American embassies were delivered to Kenya and Tanzania by an FSB officer, Andropov's relative). Of course in the best communist traditions the Kremlin denied any connections with anti-American forces but it was nothing. The secret status of the agreement made for the US impossible to make any public pressure on the Kremlin. All rebukes met the only answer: "yes, we are delivering some military materials not forbidden by the UN sanctions, but what's wrong? We have no reasons to stop this legal business."

Meanwhile the stream of American dollars to Russia not only never decreased but constantly increased every year. Yeltsin's enviroment very soon saw where they could easily get money from - their demands became more and more impudent: "if don't give us more money we will cut off our "good relations" and disclose for the world our "secret agreement" and all Americans will see how idiotic your policy is." Every dollar of this "stabiling credits" used to be immediately stolen, the level living of the Kremlin's inhabitants raised up to several hundred times, most money returned to the US through illegal and semi-legal bank structures, now they are "stabilizing" American criminal structures.

In all Russia the situation became even worse. All dreams about democracy disappeared as they never existed. The population became several times poorer than they were during the communist times. Nobody believed anymore that the Americans want anything good for Russia. In result - the growth of anti-American hatred among usual people. It may sound strange but when Clinton tried to show himself more and more friendly to Yeltsin it made more and more Russian people sure that all happening in the country had been arranged by these "imperialists". In result more and more anti-Americanism wich allowed Yeltsin to take more and more strict position, which forced Clinton to be more and more friendly and so on...

But even this dull Gore's work wouldn't be so smashing if it hadn't been combined with Clinton's isolationist idea-fix. Lets keep silence about areas where the US lost their position, it will sound too sadly.

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