The Knights Templar

Discussions on other historical eras.
User avatar
Jungle Hyena
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 06 Jun 2004 13:50
Location: Netherlands

Post by Jungle Hyena » 26 Jun 2004 02:37

The Cruisader Knight where the hardcore of European development. They invented banking and lots more. These proud orders put Europe on the map for the first time.

Only because Papacy saw its power threathened they where eventually hunted down and excommunicated, like mere witches.

If their power would have been allowed to florish, ... Israel might currently be Roman Catholic and not Jewish.

Crusader Knights and organisation inspired true western economics, but was cut short because of personal interrest of current medieval rulers.

The world today would have been a whole other place if the King of France had stuck his nose in other things, instead of crusader-economics.

Ba!! Damned looser!!

ChristopherPerrien
Member
Posts: 7047
Joined: 26 Dec 2002 00:58
Location: Mississippi

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 26 Jun 2004 03:53

The Cruisader Knight where the hardcore of European development. They invented banking and lots more. These proud orders put Europe on the map for the first time.
The Templars did not run "banks", they would hold onto money and assets for people in their fortresses, and they were considered quite secure and trustworty, since the Templars were in effect the military forces of the Catholic Church.

Since the Templars, had these fortresses all over the Mediterrnean and parts of Europe and their own "secret" cants and codes would be honored at any Templar fortress, it was possilbe to "tranfer" these assets between them , hence traders and rich people(nobility, the church) used the Templars as an international bank of sorts.

However the templars did not loan money, as the sin of usury forbid it, that area of banking was therefore the realm of people who were not Christians, In Europe at the time this would have been Jews.

In fact this may be the start of the entire Masonic/Jewish conspiracy thing that still is around today.

User avatar
Jungle Hyena
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 06 Jun 2004 13:50
Location: Netherlands

Post by Jungle Hyena » 26 Jun 2004 04:49

The Knight Templar did not run the banks, ... thy where the banks. They controlled the money which where eventually intended for the cruisades.

The money that the Cruisaders had was eventually so large that not even Kings could raise such summs of money and they would love to have such resources as the cruisaders had.

That was the cruisaders problem. They had money and power, ... but power was divided. Such large ammount of the economy was controlled by the crusaders and not by regular Kings and kingdoms, ... that it struck core eventually. CHoices had to be made.Eventually the King of France and the Papacy made the choice and went straight into Crusader directive, ... taking away all money and power for the better of European power.

Eastern Power failed, because of these were left with no money and Eastern powers took over the holy-lands.

User avatar
Andy H
Forum Staff
Posts: 15315
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 20:51
Location: UK and USA

Post by Andy H » 03 Jul 2004 21:15

Several posts within this thread have been removed due to there content.

This thread has been enlightning and informative. However there are certain area's-which though they may well be related to the thread topic- they are best left alone, certainly within the confines of this forum.

You can off-course post the links to such information (which are also subject to Moderator removal), but please bear in mind others-many who may well be younger in years-when posting images etc within the forum.

Andy H

Kephra
Member
Posts: 484
Joined: 19 Mar 2002 15:50
Location: Schwarzburg-Sondershausen

Post by Kephra » 04 Jul 2004 19:37

Point taken.

"It's only a game" - she laughs in the night - "Don't catch me, I'm falling, but I will return, when The Wheel turns around..."
------------
Grüße!
Kephra

User avatar
Mr Holmes
Member
Posts: 1009
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 12:14
Location: Australia

Post by Mr Holmes » 05 Oct 2007 14:51

A highly interesting (well, at least for me :-D) article has appeared on the BBC website which may dispell many of the myths surrounding the Knights Templar. Even going so far as to, according to the scholar who has found a manuscript, to "exonerate the knights entirely". I can't wait to see what is written and how other scholars will come to view this.
Vatican book on Templars' demise

The Vatican is to publish a book which is expected to shed light on the demise of the Knights Templar, a Christian military order from the Middle Ages.
The book is based on a document known as the Chinon parchment, found in the Vatican Secret Archives six years ago after years of being incorrectly filed.


The document is a record of the heresy hearings of the Templars before Pope Clement V in the 14th Century.

The official who found the paper says it exonerates the knights entirely.

Prof Barbara Frale, who stumbled across the parchment by mistake, says that it lays bare the rituals and ceremonies over which the Templars were accused of heresy.

In the hearings before Clement V, the knights reportedly admitted spitting on the cross, denying Jesus and kissing the lower back of the man proposing them during initiation ceremonies.

However, many of the confessions were obtained under torture and knights later recanted or tried to claim that the their initiation ceremony merely mimicked the humiliation the knights would suffer if they fell into the hands of the Muslim leader Saladin.

The leader of the order, Jacques de Moley, was one of those who confessed to heresy, but later recanted.

He was burned at the stake in Paris in 1314, the same year that the Pope dissolved the order.

However, according to Prof Frale, study of the document shows that the knights were not heretics as had been believed for 700 years.

In fact she says "the Pope was obliged to ask for pardons from the knights... the document we have found absolves them".

Details of the parchment will be published as part of Processus contra Templarios, a book that will be released by the Vatican's Secret Archive on 25 October.

Image
Caption: The Knights Templar were disbanded in the 14th Century

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7029513.stm

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17487
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Post by phylo_roadking » 05 Oct 2007 16:26

It's been a while since the main body of this thread was written - and in that time there was been a seachange in the identification of "Templar" constructions and sites around the world, particualrly the New World...

...with the publication of "1421:The Year China Discovered the World" by Gavin Menzies. A whole raft of unadorned stone structures and earthworks in North and South America on coastal inlets and estuaries that formerly were "explained" as Templar ruins are now being re-investigated - and confirmed - as stopping places of Zheng He's exploratory Treasure Fleets. Previously these were attributed to the peripatetic Templars because they were "loose" and unaccounted-for in the historical milieu, and the structures were evidently NOT of local origin! :lol: a very tenuous logic to base a hypothesis on!

HOWEVER - a second trend has appeared bringing the Templars POSSIBLY back into a North American context....the two streams of Native American "Indian" legend featuring "Lone Man".

The first stream of mythology contains a "Lone Man" who was the first Man in the world, and wnsdered the world shaping geopgraphical features and animal species, icluding other men. However, the god/divinity figure in most tribal mythologies say that this God was unhappy with these, and Lone Man was sent away...

...but the majority of tribes with that set of legneds also have the legends of a MUCH more human "Lone Man" , frequently called the reincarnation of the original demi-god - who arrives with them by boat up a wide river, a boat that is described in the legends by later reference points as a fort floating on the river". Frequently his dietary habits are different from the natives, but he takes a native wife and lives with them for a time, before getting back on his floating fort and sailing away. Usually he doesn't know where he came from...and is impervious to the weapons of the natives before they come to know him, or when he helps them against other tribes.

Now, this has over the years been VERY tenuously linked - with the same questionable logic - with Madog ab Owain Gwynedd, a native prince of Wales who left Wales around 1170 to discover new lands and returned with many wonder to show the locals. Except there's no indication of his being alone in the Welsh legends, and the legends of the Mandan Indians refer to a tribe that accompanied Lone Man and built forts and boats totally unlike theirs....

However, finally, about ten years ago an archeologist in North America found a small clay statuette of a human figure the local Native Americans identified as the "Lone Man" of their legends. it's been a whiole since I saw a picture of this, but I recall to me it looked like a European MONK until the archeologist turned it round...and it had a Templar's Cross VERY clearly incised in the clay in the middle of the figure's chest! The monk's habit wasn't a monk's habit, it was a knight's surcoat! hence maybe the legends of Lone Man being impervious to the weapons of the locals....Chainmail???

User avatar
Robb
Member
Posts: 2633
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 14:19
Location: Brisbane Australia

Post by Robb » 06 Oct 2007 12:49

Off topic post deleted.

Please keep to topic or start another one in the appropriate area. Thanks.

User avatar
Mr Holmes
Member
Posts: 1009
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 12:14
Location: Australia

Post by Mr Holmes » 06 Oct 2007 16:56

Excuse me? Off topic? And start what other thread? The picture which I posted contained the acronym "ROFLMAO" which in internet jargon means "Rolling on Floor Laughing My Ass Off" and was in direct reply to phylo's post, for surely his post had to be in jest as was my post in return. A rudimentary glance even at Amazon's reviews on that particular book comes up with this intriguing piece of review:
If you believe that little green men from outer space built Stonehenge or the Nazca lines in Peru, this is the book you want to read.
http://www.amazon.com/1421-Year-China-D ... 006054094X

On all the literature I have read on the Crusades in general and on the Templars in particular, I have not read such outlandish claims, in any serious book. Look at an editorial review on the Menzies book:
A former submarine commander in Britain's Royal Navy, Menzies must enjoy doing battle. The amateur historian's lightly footnoted, heavily speculative re-creation of little-known voyages made by Chinese ships in the early 1400s goes far beyond what most experts in and outside of China are willing to assert and will surely set tongues wagging. According to Menzies's brazen but dull account of the Middle Kingdom's exploits at sea, Magellan, Dias, da Gama, Cabral and Cook only "discovered" lands the Chinese had already visited, and they sailed with maps drawn from Chinese charts. Menzies alleges that the Chinese not only discovered America, but also established colonies here long before Columbus set out to sea. Because China burned the records of its historic expeditions led by Zheng He, the famed eunuch admiral and the focus of this account, Menzies is forced to defend his argument by compiling a tedious package of circumstantial evidence that ranges from reasonable to ridiculous. While the book does contain some compelling claims-for example, that the Chinese were able to calculate longitude long before Western explorers-drawn from Menzies's experiences at sea, his overall credibility is undermined by dubious research methods. In just one instance, when confounded by the derivation of cryptic words on a Venetian map, Menzies first consults an expert at crossword puzzles rather than an etymologist. Such an approach to scholarship, along with a promise of more proof to come in the paperback edition, casts a shadow of doubt over Menzies's discoveries. 32 pages of color illus., 27 maps and diagrams. Book-of-the-Month Club alternate.
I do not for one minute believe that phylo believes such things and it was written, as I wrote earlier, in jest, and so was my reply in picture of Chairman Mao with the acronym "ROFLMAO" inscribed on there.

What I take issue with, Robb, is not the deletion of the photograph and post (I signed on with an agreement that all my posts can be deleted, I don't care about that if it needs to happen), but that there may be the thought with the wording "Off topic post deleted. Please keep to topic or start another one in the appropriate area" that I sought to offend phylo in my post, which I most certainly did not, and that I purposely posted crap (ie. spammed) for no reason at all when I did not.

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17487
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Post by phylo_roadking » 06 Oct 2007 20:18

Since it was published, wrecks at the sights all around the world he mentioned are being re-analysed, a lot more genetic work has been done, and period Chinese artifacts are appearing out of said mounds now that they've been opened. People laughed at the book - then it started coming true! ;-)

Since book was published, there have been many scathing reviews - which stopped appearing when the archeological confirmation started rolling in....

I was as sceptical as any, a lot of that revelatory "hi-story" stuff is risible - but proof is a wonderful thing :-(

(its either believe Menzies OR the Piri Reis Map really IS 15,000years old....!)

User avatar
thorwald77
Member
Posts: 472
Joined: 25 Sep 2007 17:42
Location: usa

Post by thorwald77 » 06 Oct 2007 20:30

The only Chinese-Templer connection that can be proved is the small Chinese Restaurant in Malbork Poland which is the site of the Castle of of the Teutonic Knights. If you are in Poland this place is worth seeing.
In 1945 the Sovs brought up heavy guns to demolish it, Himmler turned into fortified area, The Poles restored after the war.

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17487
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Post by phylo_roadking » 06 Oct 2007 21:53

er...no...its NOT a Chinese -Templar connection, Thorwald - it's that a lot of locations around the New World that have previously be "identified" as Templar (:lol:) are now proving to be Chinese instead
Last edited by phylo_roadking on 06 Oct 2007 21:55, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17487
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Post by phylo_roadking » 06 Oct 2007 21:54

(It might be the number of rusted 15th century toys that are being dug up, marked "Made in China - unsafe for children"...)

darkknight
Member
Posts: 7
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 01:33

Re: The Knights Templar

Post by darkknight » 31 Mar 2009 01:44

I want to know if there is anybody or group still interested in finding the black-violet crystal of half quartz and half amethyst. Does anyone know?

by ohrdruf on 10 Jun 2004, 17:13

The Holy Grail ("Ghral"=holy stone, Persian/Arabic) was said to be a black-violet crystal, half quartz,
half amethyst, through which Higher Powers communicated with humanity. It was given into the safe-keeping
of the Cathars, and smuggled out of the last stronghold at Montsegur, France, and hidden, by four Cathar
women on the night of 14 March 1244. There is a Cathar legend that 700 years after the destruction of the
Cathar religion the Holy Grail would be returned to its rightful holders, DHvSS, or the SS.

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17487
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Re: The Knights Templar

Post by phylo_roadking » 31 Mar 2009 19:24

Probably...

thousands.... 8O

Return to “Other eras”