Most Heroic Last Stand Ever

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Evzonas
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Post by Evzonas » 07 Oct 2006 10:09

The battle of Ruppel during German invasion in Greece -op Marita-...

Must have been the first army that really shook Germans .. no wonder they presented arms to the surrendering Greeks

Jon G.
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Post by Jon G. » 15 Oct 2006 16:08

An off-topic post was removed. Please stay on topic.

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Musashi
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Post by Musashi » 15 Oct 2006 20:23

Evzonas wrote:The battle of Ruppel during German invasion in Greece -op Marita-...

Must have been the first army that really shook Germans .. no wonder they presented arms to the surrendering Greeks
They did it for the first time in Westerplatte in Poland on September 7th 1939. In the addition a Polish commander of Westerplatte could carry his sabre in a PoW camp as a sign of respect.

Attila the Hunking
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Post by Attila the Hunking » 22 Oct 2006 13:48

Tosun Saral wrote:Turkish history is full of examples of "last Stands". After fall of Budapest Hungarians get into the jorke of Austrians.
Uhhmm...I suppose the Hungarians were rather glad to "get into the jorke of Austrians" since they'd have preferred this over ottoman rule anyday, the latter being much worse. Besides, habsburgian Kings had ruled Hungary before and they at least didn't drag off people into slavery.
Austrians captured our spoiled girl called Budapest.
It could hardly get more jingoistic. :roll:

Anyway, I'd add Oda Nobungas last stand at Honnoji Temple.
Before dawn, the Akechi army had Honnoji surrounded in a coup. Nobunaga and his servants and bodyguards resisted, but they realized it was futile against the overwhelming numbers of Akechi troops. Setting fire to Honnoji, Nobunaga committed suicide. His remains were not found, a fact often speculated about by writers and historians.

Tosun Saral
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Post by Tosun Saral » 22 Oct 2006 21:36

Attila the Hunking wrote:
Tosun Saral wrote:Turkish history is full of examples of "last Stands". After fall of Budapest Hungarians get into the jorke of Austrians.
Uhhmm...I suppose the Hungarians were rather glad to "get into the jorke of Austrians" since they'd have preferred this over ottoman rule anyday, the latter being much worse. Besides, habsburgian Kings had ruled Hungary before and they at least didn't drag off people into slavery.
Austrians captured our spoiled girl called Budapest.
It could hardly get more jingoistic. :roll:

Anyway, I'd add Oda Nobungas last stand at Honnoji Temple.
Before dawn, the Akechi army had Honnoji surrounded in a coup. Nobunaga and his servants and bodyguards resisted, but they realized it was futile against the overwhelming numbers of Akechi troops. Setting fire to Honnoji, Nobunaga committed suicide. His remains were not found, a fact often speculated about by writers and historians.
What a fantastic Hun King he is! You could be the King of Jesters at Austrian court :lol:
Don't you Know the History? If they were happy Why did Hungarians revolt against Austrians under Habsburgs jorke?
Here are my web pages for:
Thökely Imre :http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/7d696/be3/
II.Ferenc Rakoczi :http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/7d696/c11/
Lajos Kossuth 1802-1894:http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/7d696/1bee7c/
They all refuged to Turkey to seek a friendly heaven againts Austrian brutality. Those who could't refuge was killed, tortured, hanged by Habsburger. It was Hungarian Genocide. Hungarians never revolted to Turks. They fought bravely in all battles and became good friends of Turks. Since 1850's they know that they are brothers of Turks.

Austrians captured our spoiled girl called Budapest is a song written by Turkish Army Poet Gazi Hasan. Here is the Hungarian and English translation:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/7d696/6aa67/
Tosun Saral
President of Turkish Hungarian Friendship Society in Ankara

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Evzonas
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Post by Evzonas » 22 Oct 2006 23:34

I know NO hungarian who is not proud of his countries efforts to fight back the Ottomans...

and from Wiki:
"János Hunyadi, the Regent of Hungary fought defensive wars against the invading Ottoman Empire. The custom of sounding the noon bell is closely related to an important battle against the Ottomans that took place on June 29, 1456, at Nándorfehérvár.

His son, King Matthias Corvinus, ruled the Kingdom of Hungary from 1458 to 1490. He strengthened Hungary and its government. Under his rule, Hungary became an important artistic and cultural centre of Europe during the Renaissance. Matthias, whose wife was Italian, imported artisans from Italy and France. Likewise, Hungarian culture influenced others, for example the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. King Matthias Corvinus was also successful in many battles against the Ottoman Empire.

After the death of Matthias, however, Hungarian independence soon ended. The Ottomans gained a decisive victory at the battle of Mohács in 1526, and the old Kingdom of Hungary came to be divided into three parts: one third of Hungary fell under Ottoman rule; one third (in the West) was annexed by Austria (the Habsburg rulers of which thus also became Kings of Hungary); only the last third, in the East, remained "independent Hungary": the Principality of Transylvania. It was only more than 150 years later, at the end of the 17th century, that Austria and its Christian allies regained the territories of the Kingdom from the Ottoman Empire.

After the final retreat of the Ottomans, struggle began between the Hungarian nation and the Habsburg kings for the protection of noblemen's rights (thus guarding the autonomy of Hungary). The fight against Austrian absolutism resulted in the unsuccessful popular freedom fight led by a Transylvanian nobleman, Ferenc II Rákóczi, between 1703 and 1711. The revolution and war of 1848–1849 eliminated serfdom and secured civil rights. The Austrians were finally able to prevail only with Russian help."

There is no historical evidence that
a. Hungarians where happy to be under Ottoman rule...
b. Hungarians preffered Ottoman rule over Habsburg Rule...

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Post by Attila the Hunking » 23 Oct 2006 20:41

Tosun Saral wrote: Don't you Know the History? If they were happy Why did Hungarians revolt against Austrians under Habsburgs jorke?
I didn't claim they were happy under habsburgian rule. I just assumed they were at least somewhat less unhappy that way than being under the heel of the ottoman empire. I don't think those required to hand their children over to the ottoman army, as kind of a tax, to be raised as military slaves (aka Janissaries) were happy with that either.
Those who could't refuge was killed, tortured, hanged by Habsburger. [...]
Sorry, I`m not apt to buy that. I can imagine that austrian troops did some violations against hungarian civilians but to assert a genocide in the true sense of the word, that is, a systematic attempt to destroy the hungarian people seems rather a product of your fantasy to me. Unless I'm proven otherwise by some neutral sources.

And yeah, they did revolt later on, because they opposed austrian-catholic counterreformation, because they didn`t like being germanized and because they preferred they own rule over any foreign one (as basically all nations do).

But if life under ottoman rule was so enjoyable and the ottomans themselves so humane, why did , for example, the greeks or the serbs revolt and why would the ottoman do this?

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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 23 Oct 2006 20:56

* Gentlemen: The topic of this thread is most heroic last stands, not the pros and cons of Ottoman rule in Hungary - kindly stay on topic. Any further off-topic posts will be deleted.

Tosun Saral: Immediately cease and desist from posting this kind of personal insult:
Tosun Saral wrote:What a fantastic Hun King he is! You could be the King of Jesters at Austrian court. Don't you Know the History?
Any further transgression of this kind will lead to administrative action. Govern yourself accordingly.

Allen/ *

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Evzonas
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Post by Evzonas » 23 Oct 2006 21:13

Musashi wrote:
Evzonas wrote:The battle of Ruppel during German invasion in Greece -op Marita-...

Must have been the first army that really shook Germans .. no wonder they presented arms to the surrendering Greeks
They did it for the first time in Westerplatte in Poland on September 7th 1939. In the addition a Polish commander of Westerplatte could carry his sabre in a PoW camp as a sign of respect.
Musashi, I accept this unkown to me incident but there is a small difference....
Greek army units in Rupel fought for at least 1-2 days after they were supposed to surrender, only after they fired their last rounds or after being gassed out of the bunkers. Also, according to the original surrender treaty, Greek army was not considered POW and all officers would maintain their sidearms... this changed only after the second treaty Germans were short of forced to sign by the Italians who were ashamef from the original treaty.

I believe its noble to leave an enemy commander with his sabre but, for the Germans to leave all enemy soldiers go home, to be inspected by the surrendering commander and honour him means much more... call me a believer that the value of an army is depended on that of its enemy... cause that was obviously what the Germans saw in those crazy Greek peasant boys.

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Post by Sasuke » 02 Nov 2006 16:19

I dont even know why people discuss this topic. Its clear that is the Battle at Thermopylae the most heroic battle out of alll time. Leonidas knew from before that he was gonna die from the oracle, and he even told his wife to get marry. He was even offered to be King of Greece but he decline so he can go to his doom. Yes it was true that Leonidas was going to his doom so he took only a small force: an oracle had foretold that Sparta could be saved only by the death of one of its kings. His strategy was to buy as much time as he could and he succeded on that. And not only that.When Leonidas was killed, he was some distance away. Some of the Spartans formed a tight group, fought their way to his body, picked it up, then fought their way back to the main group on the hill.
The Persians seemed utterly unable to annihilate the last 300 Spartans. They demanded the body of Leonidas in return for the Spartan's lives, but the men refused to abandon the body of their King, declaring: "A Spartan leaves the field with his shield or upon it".
And took take over of more than a million men army with only 300 troops, thats bravery and heroism. Thats why they even made movies, wrote sond and novels about it.
I dont know why people would say something else. Is it cause they are jealous?

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Evzonas
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Post by Evzonas » 02 Nov 2006 16:24

Sasuke wrote:I dont even know why people discuss this topic. Its clear that is the Battle at Thermopylae the most heroic battle out of alll time. Leonidas knew from before that he was gonna die from the oracle, and he even told his wife to get marry. He was even offered to be King of Greece but he decline so he can go to his doom. Yes it was true that Leonidas was going to his doom so he took only a small force: an oracle had foretold that Sparta could be saved only by the death of one of its kings. His strategy was to buy as much time as he could and he succeded on that. And not only that.When Leonidas was killed, he was some distance away. Some of the Spartans formed a tight group, fought their way to his body, picked it up, then fought their way back to the main group on the hill.
The Persians seemed utterly unable to annihilate the last 300 Spartans. They demanded the body of Leonidas in return for the Spartan's lives, but the men refused to abandon the body of their King, declaring: "A Spartan leaves the field with his shield or upon it".
And took take over of more than a million men army with only 300 troops, thats bravery and heroism. Thats why they even made movies, wrote sond and novels about it.
I dont know why people would say something else. Is it cause they are jealous?
At Thermopylae, there were not only 300 Spartans on the Greek side... this is historical mistake.

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Post by Nikolay » 03 Nov 2006 09:22

Well, first I don't think heroism and selfsacrifice could be measured. And I don't agree that there could be "greatest" or "smallest" last stand ever. I believe every act of this kind deserves equal respect.
I will mention three last stands in the history of Bulgaria.
1. In April 1876 during the uprising in which my countrymen fought for their country's freedom the whole population of the small towns of Batak and Perushtitza for a week resisted determined attacks of 20 000 strong Ottoman army (including artillery) and several thousand of the so-called "bashibozouks". The people of both towns fought for every house and, in both cases, their "last bastion" was the local church. When left only with their knives, the last surviving defenders of Perushtitza chose to kill their own women and children before opening the gates ot the church and made the last desperate attack with their knives... The whole 3000 strong population of Batak perished in the battle as well as 80% of the population of Perushtitza.
2. In the last day of Kilkis (Kukush) battle during the Second Balkan war in 1913 the commander of the 7th Company of the 32nd Infantry regiment of the Bugarian army, podporuchik (second lieutenant) Hristo Donev volunteered to stay in the trenches with his men and cover the retreat of the regiment from the positions around Kukush. They fought for around half an hour against far more numerous enemy. Of the whole company only 14 men remained alive. Donev was firing his revolver until the last moment on the closing enemy. After refusing to surrender, with his last bullet he shot himself.
3. On 15th September 1918 during the battle of Dobro pole the mashine-gun companies of the 10th and 30th Infantry regiments on te peaks of Sokol and Dobro pole for hours fought completely surrounded. After refusing repeatedly to surrender to the advancing enemy of the 122nd French infantry division, they were all burned by flamethrowers.

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An Unknown Hero

Post by Tosun Saral » 24 Nov 2006 20:31

British Naval Officer at the order of Ottoman Turkish Navy Sir Alexander Slade, better known Slade Pasha wrote in his famous book "Kaptan Paşa" about the Turkish-Russian War of 1878-79:
" As the Russian units entered to the town of Aydos which was deserted by Turks a short time ago, there was deep silence in the town. Nobody was seen antwhere. The happy advancing Russians suddlenly noticed a 80 years old Turk just standing in the middle of the main street. He had a Turkish Jatagan (sword) in his right hand and a pistole in his left hand. He yelled and cursed to the Russians. The Russian commander ordered his sargeant to bring that crazy Turk. The sergeant walked towards the Turk. The Turk fired and killed him. Another Russian soldier attamted to catch him. The Turk killed him also. Then; the 80 years old Turk attacked to the Russians with his Jatagan yelling the famous Turkish cry "Allah Allah". The Russians opened fire. He fell down dead. In the middle of the main street of Aydos a great hero was lying dead."

source:My late brother Osman Yavuz Saral's book "Kaybettigimiz Rumeli" (The Rumelia that We lost) "p.161)

* A section of this posting which, though covering an act of courage, also contained a number of nationalistic and insulting passages was removed by the Moderator. If you cannot tell a story without insulting another nation, then do not bother posting at all. Allen (Moderator) *

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Post by Tosun Saral » 28 Nov 2006 10:53

Dear Moderator, You removed a true historic event. What I wrote in my posting was passed in the history. If we dont write the truth how can we understand ourselves better? How can we understand the history better? The crime will go on. No body will learn what was happened on the quai of Izmir in May 15th 1919. No body will learn how unarmed Turkish Col. Suleyman Fethi Bey was bayoneted by invading Greek army while he refused to yell "Zito Hellas"(Long live Greece). You can not deny and cover the truth. The truth is fire.

THE MOMORY OF HASAN TAHSIN WHO STOOD ALONE AGAINTS AN INVADING GREEK ARMY IS WRITTEN IN THE PAGES OF HISTORY. IT IS NOT REMOVEABLE.

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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 28 Nov 2006 17:01

Tosun Saral:

If you are able to re-write the story without insults directed at other nations, there will be no problem with it. Simple.

Allen/

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