Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

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South
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Re: Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

Post by South » 22 Oct 2009 10:03

Good morning Acolyte,

Ref the block quote;

Re: "Norway would prehaps...requested...US troops...constantly deployed in Norway.";

I remember attending an unclassified lecture where the speaker told us on that on day one of hostilities, NATO Iceland would be lost. This inferred that Norway and north UK would also be lost. What could US troops in northern Norway do, less serve as another tripwire?

The northern Norway situation was clear enough. A glance at an area map sobers one up. This, however, is not applicable to "Through the rapid occupation of Denmark.." As weak as non-nuclear NATO forces were, Denmark was well situated to prevent any "rapid occupation" by Warsaw Pact forces.

The Soviet Union's perception in the 1950s was correct; "...Sweden had a special role..."

A FINANCIAL TIMES article of 2,3 August 2003 (weekend edition) under "Cold War Neutrality" had an article titled:

"Recovering sunken Swedish spyplane will raise delicate questions from the deep" by Nicholas George in Stockholm.

A brief excerpt:

The DC-3...was shot down over international waters in 1952 by a Soviet jet. Three days later an aircraft involved in the search and rescue was also shot down [this crew escaped].

According to Wilheim Agrell, a senior lecturer at Lund University, ...

Only in 1983 did they [Swedish authorities] admit it was gathering intelligence...and not until 1992,...'the mission was in cooperation with the US and Britain.'"

.....

The article has a picture of the lost Swedish DC-3, photographed in 1950.

Warm regards,

Bob

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

Post by phylo_roadking » 22 Oct 2009 15:24

....which was one of the reasons the U.S. AND the British Army maintained amphibious forces in the Atlantic theatre through the Cold War, and regularly exercised landings in Norway; they envisaged Norway falling very quickly and being most valuable to the enemy for the expansion of the range of its land-based combat aircraft and helicopters in the naval battle for the G-I-UK Gap, and for light naval forces. So they planned and exercised for opening a number of 1940-style bridgeheads in Norway to harass the Soviets' establishment of forward air and naval operating bases there :wink: IIRC the last Royal Marine amphibious exercise there was held as late as 1995. Since then, a lot of their Arctic-environment vehicles have been scrapped or released to the surplus market; items like the Hagglunds BV206 articulated arctic personnel carriers and earlier types are very popular with collectors, as being designed to be hard-wearing and durable they don't need much restoring! :lol:

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KASHANKA
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Re: Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

Post by KASHANKA » 17 Nov 2009 23:41

In an unconfirmed report from 1998, the late Generał Tuczapski revealed some details about the Denmark invasion plans used in polish military exercises in the early 70s.
The polish naval infantry togeather with paratroopers were to take the islands of Mon and Falster, then togeather with a soviet invasion force they were to advance of Copenhagen. There was to be an extensive use of tactical nuclear strikes, with the cities of Copenhagen, Alborg, Archus, Roskilde, Odense, Esbjerg and Randers as the urban targets. The operation's goal was to knock Denmark out of the war, to secure the right flank of the Warsaw Pact forces advancing across the North German Plain and therough the destruction of infrastructure, make Denmark a place inapropriate for a potential NATO counterinvasion.

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Acolyte
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Re: Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

Post by Acolyte » 18 Aug 2010 14:26

Article about the Czechoslovak war plan of 1964:

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/topics/pubs ... ilHist.pdf

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PatriotTurk
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Soviet war plans for Middle East?

Post by PatriotTurk » 18 Aug 2010 17:03

Anyone have any plans for Middle-Eastern fronts of the war? (e.g. Turkey and Persia)

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Acolyte
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Re: Soviet war plans for Middle East?

Post by Acolyte » 19 Aug 2010 11:25

PatriotTurk wrote:Anyone have any plans for Middle-Eastern fronts of the war? (e.g. Turkey and Persia)


I don't know of any - which isn't that surprising since AFAIK no post-1945 Soviet war plans or contingency plans have ever been made public. Maybe they didn't even have contingency plans of an attack against Turkey since the geography of the border area pretty much prohibits mechanized war.

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PatriotTurk
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Re: Soviet war plans for Middle East?

Post by PatriotTurk » 19 Aug 2010 16:18

Acolyte wrote:
PatriotTurk wrote:Anyone have any plans for Middle-Eastern fronts of the war? (e.g. Turkey and Persia)


I don't know of any - which isn't that surprising since AFAIK no post-1945 Soviet war plans or contingency plans have ever been made public. Maybe they didn't even have contingency plans of an attack against Turkey since the geography of the border area pretty much prohibits mechanized war.



In post Cold War Era, Russians were driven out of Europe and European plans were be useless. But Middle East is different, maybe these plans already in valid. That may be cause of this lack of information.

Greetings
Onur

Pavel Novak
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Re: Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

Post by Pavel Novak » 21 Sep 2010 19:53

Hi
Gradually I am adding declassified informations about Czechoslovak war plans during Cold War in Tank-net forum:

http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.php?showtopic=32343

ChristopherPerrien
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Re: Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 28 Sep 2010 16:39

Alp Guard wrote:I would be interested in the strategic plans by Soviet military leaders for an attack on Western Europe during the "cold war" period. Are they published or still secret? Is there am member of this forum to come up with maps or detailed plans? How did the Soviets analyse the strong and weak points of NATO strategy?

Sorry, if this has been discussed already.



You could always get the book "The Third World War,1985" by General Hackett, an excellent novel about the possible attack on Europe as of about 1985. Hackett was a former commander of British Nato land combat Forces( The Army of the Rhine). Good book , meant alot to me at the time , as coincidentally way back when, as I would have been sitting in the "Fulda Gap" in an M60A3 , back in 1986 and 1987, or somewhere else in an XM1/M1 in 1988 and 1989.

Great to know we won that war, in 1989, even though it never occured. I got my medal for it. :milsmile:

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Re: Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

Post by antfreire » 29 Sep 2010 13:34

So, the Warsaw Pact armed forces attack Western Europe, obliterate it and conquer it. Who would reconstruct them after the communist victory? Who would provide a Plan Marshall? Who would feed millions of people since the Soviets were not capable of feeding themselves properly? Besides, who can guarantee that considering the hate that the Soviet Block countries had towards their masters those armies were going to be loyal? And what about Mao waiting for an opportunity to attack the Soviets in Siberia? Something must be very clear. The Communist knew that by means of war they would not have a chance to win in Europe because there was no posible victory. Had they seen any small possiblity, I am sure that they would not have waited untill the system collapse the way it did at the end.

ChristopherPerrien
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Re: Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 29 Sep 2010 16:26

There is alot of commentary in "Dirty Little Secrets"-Dunnigan/Nofi, about the recurrent problem of disasterous operational analysis of a Soviet attack on Europe thoughout the 70-80's, by some of the "brighter light/budding genius type graduates" of the Soviet military's command and staff college in those times. The writers of such reports were fairly "shelved", but the reports they wrote had alot do with why such an assault was considered "unfeasible." Suggest reading this book,watchout though Dunnigan/nofi are "indirectly" agents for our MIC, so the deceptive way they talk about stuff is quite like, only better than "Clancy", IYKWIM. I think they are both true "spook propagangadists" for the MIC, and another organization which can't be mentioned here.

Only in the dirirest of circumstances would the USSR had contemplated it. The world was probably in the worst danger when the USSR was falling apart, however by then, their combat forces were no longer capable of an assault. And the forces of the Warsaw Pact by that time were throughly unreliable.

Really now, looking back the last half of the cold war( was a big hoax) - promoted on both sides , mainly to keep the MIC's of both sides awash in money. And was futher used by the politicans of both sides to invoke the fear of a threat merely to distract the masses from real problems in their respective countries. It also amde for great/distracting new in the media/press of "both"? sides. God knows, I was in basic training when "Rocky V" came out, I was a little more "gullible" back then than I am now. 8-)

Simple fact was the USSR was getting somewhere on the order of half its grain from America in the 1980's , and a war would have seen the mass starvation of many people in the SU. No matter what planning was done , the Soviet miltary
could never have won WWIII, nor would they have tried it, due to this one little fact. So it really was a sham.
Last edited by ChristopherPerrien on 29 Sep 2010 17:01, edited 1 time in total.

ChristopherPerrien
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Re: Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 29 Sep 2010 16:51

I also suggest the wargame "Nato" by SPI. It contains the complete order of land battle combat forces for both sides, in the early 1980's in later editions. SPI was founded by Dunnigan. "Sixth Fleet" does the same for the Med. Theater.

Also you can try pages attached to this sitehttp://www.strategypage.com/dls/default.asp

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LWD
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Re: Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

Post by LWD » 30 Sep 2010 13:17

ChristopherPerrien wrote:... agents for our MIC, ....

MIC?

Michael Kenny
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Re: Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

Post by Michael Kenny » 30 Sep 2010 15:02


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John Hilly
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Re: Soviet war plans vs. NATO 1956 - 1989. Anybody knows?

Post by John Hilly » 30 Sep 2010 18:50

Here's some Western footage of the SU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVApVIMRVMk&feature=related

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Juha-Pekka :milwink:
"Die Blechtrommel trommelt noch!"

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