Bundeswehr and NVA!

[leibestandarte-landser]

hello gentlemen!
i want to know your opinion about witch from the both post war german armies (Bundeswehr and NVA) would be regarded as the continuation of the reichwehr and wehrmacht,witch army had kept some basic german army traditions to be the daughter of prussian armies? as far as i know the nva kept just the parade uniform (Wachregiment Friedrich Engels) and the NEUE WACHE ceremonial,but the bundeswehr was formed by Wehrmacht veterans!
greetings to all!

[Kentaurus]

hello gentlemen!
i want to know your opinion about witch from the both post war german armies (Bundeswehr and NVA) would be regarded as the continuation of the reichwehr and wehrmacht,witch army had kept some basic german army traditions to be the daughter of prussian armies? as far as i know the nva kept just the parade uniform (Wachregiment Friedrich Engels) and the NEUE WACHE ceremonial,but the bundeswehr was formed by Wehrmacht veterans!
greetings to all!

The NVA uniforms in general (not just the parade uniform) looked A LOT like the Wehrmachtuniforms (nearly identical). Bundeswehr uniforms were completely new designs. Wehrmacht veterans formed the Bundeswehr as well as the NVA. When it comes to technicalities both armies can be regarded as continuations from the Wehrmacht. The NVA even more so than the Bundeswehr. When it comes to the importance of political indoctrination the NVA looked a lot like the Wehrmacht. IMHO the NVA resembled the Wehrmacht much more than the Bundeswehr.

[Erich Hartmann]

Also, as Germany (West) developed into a largely de-militarized society (by the hearts and the minds of the people), Germany (East) did not.
Soldiers were portrayed as "Heroes of the working class", the army was the "guarant of the safety of the state", every man had to make a stint, youths had to visit military training camps even before they would get drafted etc.....

[Kentaurus]

Also, as Germany (West) developed into a largely de-militarized society (by the hearts and the minds of the people), Germany (East) did not.
Soldiers were portrayed as "Heroes of the working class", the army was the "guarant of the safety of the state", every man had to make a stint, youths had to visit military training camps even before they would get drafted etc.....

Oh yeah. I forgot that one. So called "pre-military training" in training camps mentioned by Hartmann and also very importantly in the paramilitary training organisation called "GST (Gesellschaft für Sport und Technik)". That looked a lot like the pre-military training in the Hitlerjugend. West Germany didn't have anything like that. When one broke the rules in the NVA one could end up in a military prison and I hear tales from the older folk that those NVA military prisons were BRUTAL. Allegedly resulted in a high suicide rate. I imagine that is something that was borrowed from the Wehrmacht too. And last but not least the NVA helmet was originally designed for the Wehrmacht near the end of the war while the Bundeswehr introduced the U.S. helmet. If that doesn't say something about who is the true daughter of the Wehrmacht

[Erich Hartmann]

I wonder if the "Bundeswehr" couldn't be renamed back to "Wehrmacht"...This prefix "Bund..." reminds me to much
at the time when Germany had this little village Bonn as capital...

[Kentaurus]

I wonder if the "Bundeswehr" couldn't be renamed back to "Wehrmacht"...This prefix "Bund..." reminds me to much
at the time when Germany had this little village Bonn as capital...

The prefix "Bund" is a testament to our democratically constituted nation of federal states. That means it is something to be proud of. Whereas "Wehrmacht" ...

[leibestandarte-landser]

hello gentlemen!
i want to know your opinion about witch from the both post war german armies (Bundeswehr and NVA) would be regarded as the continuation of the reichwehr and wehrmacht,witch army had kept some basic german army traditions to be the daughter of prussian armies? as far as i know the nva kept just the parade uniform (Wachregiment Friedrich Engels) and the NEUE WACHE ceremonial,but the bundeswehr was formed by Wehrmacht veterans!
greetings to all!

The NVA uniforms in general (not just the parade uniform) looked A LOT like the Wehrmachtuniforms (nearly identical). Bundeswehr uniforms were completely new designs. Wehrmacht veterans formed the Bundeswehr as well as the NVA. When it comes to technicalities both armies can be regarded as continuations from the Wehrmacht. The NVA even more so than the Bundeswehr. When it comes to the importance of political indoctrination the NVA looked a lot like the Wehrmacht. IMHO the NVA resembled the Wehrmacht much more than the Bundeswehr.

no, the nva's battle dress and camouflage were like the red army ones? don't forget thet Bundeswehr wore the same Wehrmacht camo at first, and the Bundesgrenzschutz wore the same Feldgrau and m1940 helmet!
and now with the kevlar helmet and flecktarn,the german soldier doesn't look much on the Waffen-SS?

[Kentaurus]

no, the nva's battle dress and camouflage were like the red army ones?don't forget thet Bundeswehr wore the same Wehrmacht camo at first, and the Bundesgrenzschutz wore the same Feldgrau and m1940 helmet!
and now with the kevlar helmet and flecktarn,the german soldier doesn't look much on the Waffen-SS ?

I'm not talking about the battle dress. I'm talking about the Dienstuniform. Look at the following photo. The left uniform is from the Kasernierte Volkspolizei (the predecessor of the NVA) and the right uniform is a NVA-Dienstuniform:

http://www.hdg.de/Final/images/pic187-2.jpg

The KVP-uniform seems to be a design that borrowed from Soviet uniforms while the NVA-uniform looks almost identical to Wehrmacht-uniforms. That Wehrmacht lookalike design was used until the end of the NVA. The modern Bundeswehr kevlar helmet looks nothing like the Wehrmacht helmet. The modern Bundeswehr Flecktarn camo on the other hand is indeed inspired by camo dresses that were used by Waffen-SS and Wehrmacht Heer. The reason why it is used is that it works so well. For that reason the early NVA used such camo designs as well. The Bundeswehr uses Flecktarn only since the beginning of the 90ies. Until then it used plain olive green battle dresses.

Here are other pictures of NVA-uniforms that show the similarity to the Wehrmacht uniforms:

http://www.ddr-geschichte.de/Armee/NVA_ ... en_1_b.jpg

http://www.ddr-geschichte.de/Armee/NVA_Uniformen_2.jpg


Here are the NVA rank insignia. I think they are IDENTICAL to the Wehrmacht rank insignia:

http://www.ddr-geschichte.de/Armee/NVA_ ... eichen.jpg

http://www.ddr-geschichte.de/Armee/NVA_ ... piegel.jpg

http://www.ddr-geschichte.de/Armee/NVA_ ... eichen.jpg


Compare that with the rank insignia of the Bundeswehr. They look nothing like the Wehrmacht rank insignia:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dienstgrad ... Bundeswehr

[leibestandarte-landser]

so you live in berlin, what's your opinion about the wachbataillon berlin and it's look with the new helmet, and the grosser zapfenstreich?

[Kentaurus]

so you live in berlin, what's your opinion about the wachbataillon berlin and it's look with the new helmet, and the grosser zapfenstreich?

Well, my opinion is that they look much less like Wehrmacht than their colleagues from the NVA when they did the Zapfenstreich:


NVA (Zapfenstreich): http://www.brandenburghistorica.com/Zapf-der-nva.jpg

NVA (Wachregiment Friedrich Engels in front of the Neue Wache:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/d ... nwache.jpg

NVA (parade 40th anniversary of GDR):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... sarmy.jpeg

NVA (uniform of 1957): http://www.dhm.de/lemo/objekte/pict/Jah ... index.html

/

Bundeswehr (Wachbattaillon): http://img.web.de/c/00/56/4F/A8.420

Bundeswehr (Dienstanzuüge):
http://www.deutschesheer.de/C1256B6C002 ... Z948SBERDE

Bundeswehr (Feldanzüge): http://www.deutschesheer.de/C1256B6C002 ... Y748SBERDE

Bundeswehr (future infanterist): http://www.deutschesheer.de/C1256B6C002 ... H122RHAHDE

P.S.: The (not so) new Bundeswehr helmet looks NOTHING like the Wehrmacht helmet.

[leibestandarte-landser]

the land forces ( landstreikrafte) mybe looked much on the whermacht, but the nva's air forces had nothing to do with the luftwaffe look, the western luftwaffe have nearly the same dienstanzug as the older one!
what about the iron cross, symbol of the german army, witch was not used by the nva but the bundeswehr had re-introduced it since 1955!
the bundeswehr feldanzug had some elements from the whermacht, but the eastern feldanzug really looked like a soviet or polish one except the helmets!
the visor hat for the nva's generals looked more russian than german http://www.militaria-lexicon.de, see it yourself, but the bundeswehr one was in the line of its predecessors!

[leibestandarte-landser]

the land forces ( landstreikrafte) mybe looked much on the whermacht, but the nva's air forces had nothing to do with the luftwaffe look, the western luftwaffe have nearly the same dienstanzug as the older one!
what about the iron cross, symbol of the german army, witch was not used by the nva but the bundeswehr had re-introduced it since 1955!
the bundeswehr feldanzug had some elements from the whermacht, but the eastern feldanzug really looked like a soviet or polish one except the helmets!
the visor hat for the nva's generals looked more russian than german http://www.militaria-lexicon.de, see it yourself, but the bundeswehr one was in the line of its predecessors!

[leibestandarte-landser]

what's your opinion about those? aren't they prussian as their wehrmacht homologues!

[Kentaurus]

what about the iron cross, symbol of the german army

The iron cross is a Prussian symbol, not a Nazi symbol. That's why that symbol can be proudly used today. Yes, the East German winter hats were designed after the Russian chapka. The West German Dienstuniform (including rank insignia) was a new design while the East German uiform (including rank insignia) looked very much like the Wehrmacht Dienstuniform: http://www.dhm.de/lemo/objekte/pict/Jah ... index.html

what's your opinion about those? aren't they prussian as their wehrmacht homologues!

They sure look Prussian but they look much less Wehrmacht than their East German colleagues when they did the Zapfenstreich: http://www.brandenburghistorica.com/Zapf-der-nva.jpg

[leibestandarte-landser]

you love the former nva so much, have you served in that army?
what about the weapons then, the bundeswehr used 100% german weapons but the nva had only russian weapons, the wachbataillon berlin use uhe k98 mauser, the nva friedrich engels wach regiment used russian simonov rifles!