Bundeswehr and NVA!

[Angus Young]

it sort of found back to its own style rather than just copying from the US

Probably because their tests showed that the traditional helmet-design was the best suited.
/ Andreas

[MacX]

I was also talking about the combat uniforms: the cut doesn't resemble US uniforms that much and the camouflage is completely new designed. The similarity to former Waffen SS patterns adds to this impression

[Angus Young]

I was also talking about the combat uniforms: the cut doesn't resemble US uniforms that much and the camouflage is completely new designed. The similarity to former Waffen SS patterns adds to this impression

I think so too. I've noticed that the worlds military forces have a tendency to try to resemble the current military leading nation. When the Prussians were top of the art, the pickelhauben was extensively used troughout Europe, Sweden and England(bobby-helmets) for example. Then it was the first world war, and even the americans developed experimental helmets that looked very similar to the german M-16, but was not used, because it looked so german. During the time before and during the second world war the german helmets was copied once again, like in Spain, Bulgaria, Hungary, Argentina, etc. After the war both US- and Soviet-style (and german)helmets and equipment was used all over the world.
The american M-1 helmet suspension, for example, was used in swedish helmets during the Cold War(still used in the National Guards, I am using one of these when I am on maneuvers). Before that we used a suspension almost identical to the ones used in the german M-18 helmet. the same thing goes with uniforms and equipment, german-style before the end of the war, and shortly thereafter, more american-influenced. A bit OT, but still quite interesting.
/ Andreas

[Paul kyre]

I like the uniform of the bundeswehr, specially its helmet, it looks german than the volksarmee's helmet. it looks russian even they called it a modified stanhelm.

[soldat_m56]

I found this short video of the Großer Zapfenstreich during the 50 year anniversary of the Bundeswehr last year. I'll let the video speak for itself on how "German" the Bundeswehr is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LGD3bdAWEk

Zapfenstreich, Das Lied der Deutschen, the helmets, and uniforms... Bundeswehr seems very German nowadays. All they need is the neue Wache and the Parademarsch, but the sensitity police would never allow the Parademarsch...

[Venttiseiska]

Very interesting topic you have here. Could any one of you German guys out there explain to me the idea behind the Bundeswehr doctrine called "Innere Führung". I found this term at the official BW website. There was an interesting videoclip on the BW 50-years multimediasite. Beacause my knowledge of German is quite bad I was only able to catch a few frase from the clip. It said something that this "Innere Führung" was the basis for the "citizen in uniform" concept and that it was developed by a group of ex-WH officers like Ulrich de Maiziere and Graf von Kielmannseg. Any info on this matter?

As a matter of interest the Finnish Defence Forces also used WH-style helmets. They were worn even as late as the 70s. I know that my father used the German m/55 helmet when he was a conscript back in the early 70s. Four years ago when I was doing my military service we were given the new kevlar helmet called the M92. IMHO all the new kevlar helmets out there are look alikes.

Here is some more on this subject: http://www.pottia.net/pottia/finnhelm.htm

[MacX]

I'm not sure, but I believe it meant that a Bundeswehr soldier should no longer be regarded nor seem himself as some stupid machine that only obeys the orders given but some modern person who questions orders and denies them if there against law and moral.
I could be wrong

[Venttiseiska]

I just found a couple of very interesting videoclips on this subject, check them out;

The first one is some kind of publicity film on the yearly years of the West German Bundeswehr. It also shows Bundeskanzler Adenauer giving a speech to the soldiers. I know he speaks something about the German re-armament and democratic functions of the Bundeswehr. Damn, I wish I could understand German.

http://www.dhm.de/lemo/html/DasGeteilte ... swehr.html

The second one is a movieclip from the yearly years of the NVA. You can clearly see that their uniforms are very similar to those of the Wehrmacht. It also shows a military parade performed by the NVA in East Berlin (is it the famous May Day parade?). I am sure that the background score is the old Prussian march called the "Marsch Des Yorckschen Korps". And finally you can see some typical communist indoctrination. The narrator speaks something about fighting against the forces of imperialism and so on.

http://www.dhm.de/lemo/html/DasGeteilte ... armee.html

Cheers

[MacX]

Adenauer: "Soldiers, I wish that your service will give you pleasure and inner satisfaction. The only aim of the German rearmament is to add to the preservation of peace. We will have reached this goal when the common potential power of resistance of our allies will be a too high risk for any possbile aggression at any time. No one can see a threat in such a military power, which only suffices for our defense.
Soldiers, you'll face a task that is especially difficult due to the shadows of the past and the problems of the present."

NVA: "I swear to defend my fatherland, the German Democratic Republic, under risk of my life against any enemy."

"Every year on May 1st, the international day of fight and celebration of the workers class, squads of the National People's Army open the demonstration of the workers at the Marx-Engels-Platz in Berlin. On the fifth party convention of the SED, minister of National Security, Genosse General Oberst Stoph could report some successes of the National People's Army.
After quitting time the party members meet and talk and critically discuss the conditions of training and readiness to combat.
There are no differences in ranks. They are one: comrades in class and battle."

I hope the translation was understandable :/\

[Venttiseiska]

Totally, thank you sir!
I am beginning to regret that in high school I always slept during my German courses

[Anzac]

in regards to the helmets, if u have a look at the current Australian Army helmets..you'll realise they look a bit like the Waffen-SS camo helmets.
#RP#

[soldat_m56]

The modern Luftwaffe during a Zapfenstreich. Notice the standard-bearer in front of the formation.

[nondescript handle]

[...] Notice the standard-bearer in front of the formation.

That isn't a standard, it is a Schellenbaum (bell tree). These bell trees are used by German armies since 1815.

A Third Reich Schellenbaum (source: http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=130940)

Regards
Mark

[Ingsoc75]

"With the (ending) of the NVA . . . went the last true German Army"
- Former Inspector General of the West German Army, as quoted in German Military Cuffbands, 1784-Present

[iannima]

"With the (ending) of the NVA . . . went the last true German Army"
- Former Inspector General of the West German Army, as quoted in German Military Cuffbands, 1784-Present

I too have come across this quotation on Bob Gowen's website. I would agree wholeheartedly that the NVA is the last army that can claim the tradition of previous German and Prussian armies, but I suspect that this Bundeswehr General meant to say something completely different and that he is being quoted out of context... A Bundeswehr officer is unlikely to say anything kind about the NVA, if he does, there is bound to be a list of qualifications half a kilometer long... Regardless of whether I agree with these qualifications or not, I do not think it is fair to quote people like that, and I would really like to know the context a bit further. Has anyone got the book?