Bundeswehr and NVA!

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Yuri
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#91

Post by Yuri » 14 Jan 2007, 10:03

OvD wrote: I would like to count all the things , in my opinion showing that the NVA was more closer to the Wehrmacht and prussian traditions:

military parades ( BRD ?????????)

"Stechschritt" in NVA :"Exerzierschritt"

Officers : breeches, riding boots, officers belt , sabre (very close to Wehrmacht) and so the dagger ; "Feldbinde" , and note : the shoulder straps for officers ! (Bundeswehr?)

note : it is not common to compare the camouflage uniforms , because the NVA normally wears the "Dienstuniform" and that was very close to Wehrmacht.

but I agree that the "Flecktarn" is more closer to SS camouflage,

The NVA-helmet was a created for the wehrmacht , is not soviet influenced.

The Bundeswehr first uniforms are very "american" they changed later to an more "german" style , the NVA uniform was "german" from the first day.

Bundeswehr :barret is not really german tradition

both armies very strong influenced by their "big brothers" , weapons , etc.

note some other details : loosing the regimental flag, was punished with dissolving
the regiment ( and old prussian tradition)

eastgerman soldier swear an oath on the regimental flag , westgermans give an vow (solemn promise ? dont know the right word for "Gelöbnis") this is an very important difference.

see also "Wachregiment" , real german soldies wear marching boots!

some smaller details : see "Eichenlaub" on visor hat , is same as wehrmacht bundeswehr ("Heer") wears to sabres in it -- this is american style.

bundeswehr has NO "Paradeuniform". NVA has : complete with breeches,riding boots ,sabre , "feldbinde" etc like wehrmacht and imperial army.

both big brothers (USA and Sovietunion) declared the german armies for the best armies in the NATO / Warsaw Pakt.

the Bundeswehr wears some years ago an american style helmet , the new one is not "german" inspired. It is an modern helmet : "form follows function"
It is very a pity, that the Bundeswehr after association did not use uniform NVA, in fact, in uniform NVA much more traditional attributes from the German army.

Aufrichtig sprechend, russisch sagen so:
«verstehen, nur jene Armeen zu kämpfen, die die Stiefel tragen» oder
«es können nur jene Armeen kämpfen, die die Stiefel tragen»

Only those armies which carry "Sapogi" («die Stiefel») can be at war.

P.S.
In Russian "Sapog" [plural - "Sapogi"] (in German: «der Stiefel» [plural – «die Stiefel»]) it is footwear of soldiers of armies of Russia and Germany (Imperial Army, Wermacht and NVA)

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Yuri
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#92

Post by Yuri » 11 Feb 2007, 22:39

die Stiefel
Very much aesthetics soldier's footwear


OvD
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#93

Post by OvD » 21 Feb 2007, 03:17

@ Yuri : Hi Yuri , I also think , that "real" "Stiefel" are the most common footwear for soldiers.

I am happy to see the military traditions in modern russia (uniforms, parades etc)

I have a lot of nice rememberings to the times when we have manouvres with comrades from the soviet army.

I believe the Bundesrepublik should have in "Wachregiment" in uniforms closer to real german traditions. (breeches, sabres , dagger, riding boots etc.)

some details to the NVA/Bundeswehr diskussion : note Bundeswehr wearing barets (not really "german" ) Bundeswehr officers do NOT wearing leatherbelts different to EMs , do wearing shoulder bords not different to EMs , NO riding boots , no breeches , no dagger , no sabre.....

and : the NVA helmet is an german WWII development !

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vonDunkelheit
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#94

Post by vonDunkelheit » 22 Feb 2007, 04:14

MacX wrote:I'm not sure, but I believe it meant that a Bundeswehr soldier should no longer be regarded nor seem himself as some stupid machine that only obeys the orders given but some modern person who questions orders and denies them if there against law and moral.
I could be wrong
In reality the German Soldier has never been a stupid machine that only obeys orders. Had this been true, then it wouldnt have been much of a good military.

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soldat_m56
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#95

Post by soldat_m56 » 03 Mar 2007, 05:38

German army does wear Marschstiefel now (you can buy them really cheap on ebay.de), but covers tops like Kampfstiefel... :x
Note the K98 ("G21")

Image
source: http://www.friedenskooperative.de/gifs/stiefel.jpg (stupid anti-Bundeswehr website, but good pic of how boots are worn)

Klaus[/img]

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Ingsoc75
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#96

Post by Ingsoc75 » 03 Mar 2007, 16:26

I like this picture from a photography point of view. It would be funny one of the men further up the line was wearing Ronald McDonald boots! :lol:

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iannima
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#97

Post by iannima » 04 Mar 2007, 09:57

Nick89 wrote:German army does wear Marschstiefel now (you can buy them really cheap on ebay.de), but covers tops like Kampfstiefel... :x
Note the K98 ("G21")

Image
source: http://www.friedenskooperative.de/gifs/stiefel.jpg (stupid anti-Bundeswehr website, but good pic of how boots are worn)

Klaus[/img]
I am glad you too have noticed this! To my mind this is a classical example of what is really wrong with the Bundeswehr: they start all excited thinking that German traditions should be upheld and that soldiers of the Wachbatallion must therefore wear jackboots and carry a K98. But then they think that they would look too German... and therefore start covering up the jackboots in a way that doesn't really work. It looks fenomenally ugly. It might have been done by some Panzer crews in WW2 but it is just against the tradition and I cannot think it is very practical any way. If they wanted to have bloused trousers like that, could'nt they just go for laced up boots like everybody else? It is this idiotic half way that I find infuriating...

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soldat_m56
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#98

Post by soldat_m56 » 05 Mar 2007, 01:06

I think Marschstiefel are becoming wider issue now. The photo is not from Berlin but Köln(!).

It is really sad that some people in (west) Germany still think that wearing traditional German uniforms and performing the Zapfenstreich will allow the Nazis to come to power.

The website I credited the picture shows why they are probably so wary. How idiotic.
Mit der Wiederbelebung religiös überhöhter militaristischer Rituale, die durch ihre Pflege bei der NS-Wehrmacht völlig diskreditiert sind, begibt sich die Bundeswehr bewusst in diese unselige Tradition.
Klaus

Frederick the Great
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#99

Post by Frederick the Great » 18 Apr 2007, 20:40

Image

That guy is almost the spittin' image of Seargent Schultz from Hogan's Heroes fame: :lol:

Image

willie777
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#100

Post by willie777 » 25 Apr 2007, 01:11

OK, now neither the Bundeswehr nor the NVA continued the Waffenrock. Comments? Also, IMO, the Bundeswehr Two toned uniforms look too much like a gesellschaftsuniform.
Last edited by willie777 on 29 Apr 2007, 04:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Ingsoc75
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#101

Post by Ingsoc75 » 25 Apr 2007, 18:08

Frederick the Great wrote:Image

That guy is almost the spittin' image of Seargent Schultz from Hogan's Heroes fame: :lol:

Image
Oh my god that is some funny stuff!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Venttiseiska
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Training with allies?

#102

Post by Venttiseiska » 29 Dec 2007, 04:54

How about the differences\similarities in training with their allies? I mean Bundeswehr and NATO (U.S, British, French etc) and NVA and it's Warsaw Pact allies (mainly Soviet Union). How close was the co-operation in field exercises and in strategic planning?

I have always thought that in these matters the West German Bundeswehr had far greater influence within the NATO alliance than the Nationale Volksarmee had with the Soviets. Am I wrong? I sure would like to know more. As far as I know the single most powerful military unit in East Germany were the Soviet army's Class A tank divisions (Group of Soviet Forces in Germany) which were situated close to the border. What was the NVA's most important mission then? To support the Soviet armoured thrust into western Germany? And how independently it might have operated?

And how about the Bundeswehr? In case of war how it would have operated? Under it's own national command or as a integrated part of the whole NATO defence under the guidance of SACEUR (Supreme Allied Commander Europe)?

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soldat_m56
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#103

Post by soldat_m56 » 29 Dec 2007, 17:59

From what I have read, DDR was tasked with taking West Berlin with 1. Mot-Schützen Division, Stasi and Bereitschaftspolizei. The NVA would be part of main thrust into West Germany with Czechoslovak Army into Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg. I think Soviets were supposed to push through Fulda Gap but not entirely sure. Soviets granted DDR greater flexiblity in command after 1982. Hope that helps.

Venttiseiska
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#104

Post by Venttiseiska » 29 Dec 2007, 19:16

Just found this very interesting video. It's from a television fake documentary program about Cold War turning hot in Europe. 8O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpGO_NImXg0

It also shows the Volksmarine in action. As a matter of interest, I have read that in case of war the Volksmarine was tasked to engage the Danish navy in the Baltic. Would this have been possible without any help from the Soviets?

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Ingsoc75
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#105

Post by Ingsoc75 » 29 Dec 2007, 19:34

Venttiseiska wrote:Just found this very interesting video. It's from a television fake documentary program about Cold War turning hot in Europe. 8O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpGO_NImXg0

It also shows the Volksmarine in action. As a matter of interest, I have read that in case of war the Volksmarine was tasked to engage the Danish navy in the Baltic. Would this have been possible without any help from the Soviets?
I will pay the person who can translate this series € 0.70 or $1.00 :wink:

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