Armor Markings

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Chad
Visitor
(3/24/01 6:41:20 am)
Reply Armor Markings
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Hello:

Recently I was watching CNN and I noticed that some of the German tanks operating in Macedonia had what looked to be a somewhat distorted balkenkreuz on there tanks. Is this common practice in the Bundswher for all tanks? And how do people react to it, I know it's an old symbol, but most symbols used by the Wehrmact seem to be shunned by the majority of the German populace today.

Peace out

photosammler
Member
Posts: 59
(3/24/01 9:51:44 am)
Reply Iron Cross
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Hi Chad,

the national emblem, You have seen on modern Bundeswehr tanks, is an old traditional symbol of the german forces and goes back to 1813. King Friedrich Wilhelm III. established it, first mainly as an award for bravery, but soon it became a common sign for all german states. Already in 1819 it could be seen on prussian warflags. In the 1870/71 war it became the status of a symbol that combines all german states and armies. In this time it became the warsign of the Kaiserliche Marine.
In the 1st WW it was to be seen on tanks and airplanes, very similar to the form, You see it today on Bundeswehr vehicles. After the 1st war and in the 3rd Reich it changed to the well-known Balkenkreuz, which had a very simple reason: As it was handpainted (not decals, as nowadays), it was easier to do the Balkenkreuz, than the Iron Cross, as there were a lot of vehicles to be painted now.
In October 1956 the Bundeswehr decided to use the pre-3rd Reich form - the Iron Cross.
There have been two tradition-edicts (Traditionserlaß) in 1965 and in 1982 since then and the symbol is prescribed as a "Sign for ethical soldier bravery" and as a " National symbol for bravery, love of freedom and gallantry"
As far as I know, there was never a bad reaction from the people of germany about this symbol.
In the former east german army, the NVA, it was not used, as they regarded it as a symbol for nationalism and fascism and they generally don't wanted to have the cross-symbol. They had the national-emblem of the DDR on their vehicles, but I think it was also a matter, that you can recognize friend or foe from the far.
A very good book about this subject is:
>Symbole und Zeremoniell in deutschen Streitkräften vom 18. bis zum 20. Jahrhundert < which was published in 1991 by the german >Militärgeschichtliches Forschungsamt< and as far as I know, only available in german.
Here's the ISBN 3-89350-341-2

Marcus Wendel
Webmaster
Posts: 1115
(3/24/01 6:20:25 pm)
Reply Re: Iron Cross
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Photosammler,

That sounds like a very interesting book.
Do you know where I can get a copy? I tried amazon.de but they don't seem to have it.

/Marcus

pdhinkle
Member
Posts: 270
(3/24/01 7:53:09 pm)
Reply Re: Armor Markings
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Marcus& photosam:: The mast head on this forum has a form of the Iron Cross? Then there is one with a white center line thru it in both directions. I saw them both on 3rd reich equipment in WW II. How does the balkenkruez differ?
Balken: beam or rafter in english. Right, Can someone post a photo of the different ones?

Marcus Wendel
Webmaster
Posts: 1116
(3/24/01 8:07:13 pm)
Reply Re: Armor Markings
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Paul,

The one on the top of the forum is the Balkenkreuz, the Iron Cross is the one below:


/Marcus

Marcus Wendel
Webmaster
Posts: 1117
(3/24/01 8:10:14 pm)
Reply Re: Armor Markings
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And here is the one used by the Bundeswehr (present day German military)



For more details, visit http://www.bundeswehr.de

/Marcus

photosammler
Visitor
(3/25/01 1:36:42 pm)
Reply book
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Hi Marcus,

this is the book I mentioned before:


Obviously is it not available anymore.
I can try to get a copy for You next week, but I am not sure, if my favourite military-book dealer has it.
If I could get it, I email You.

photosammler

Oberstarzt
Visitor
(3/28/01 12:34:42 am)
Reply Armor Markings
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The Wehrmacht used divisional/unit distinctive markings on their AFV's, some traditional as in units descended from the cavalry, some newly minted as in the W-SS. Does the Bundeswehr use similar markings, and are they traditional or all new & "improved"?

photosammler
Member
Posts: 61
(3/28/01 3:08:47 pm)
Reply Bundeswehr markings
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Yes. The Bundeswehr has unit markings. Each company has it's own marking, the battaillons, the brigades and the divisions. The divisional symbols are also worn on the walking-out dress on the left sleeve. The markings are on the vehicles as well. Mostly they are new and have nothing to do with Wehrmacht markings but in some cases they include markings of old-army traditional regiments. A good example is the 1st mountain-division of the Bundeswehr, which uses the "Edelweiss" as well as some Wehrmacht mountain divisions did.
Here's an photo of a SPz Marder from 3./PzGrenBtl 221. This company was attached to PzGrenBtl 223 in munich. That's why it has two markings, the left one for the battaillon, the right for the company.


Oberstarzt
Visitor
(3/28/01 7:28:51 pm)
Reply AFV Markings
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Thanks, Herr Sammler. Now, where the hell did they get that camouflage? Are palms growing in Bayern? Global warming is more serious than I thought!