Petsamo attack information

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
Hosted by Juha Tompuri
User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 10993
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Re: Petsamo attack information

Postby Juha Tompuri » 30 Dec 2017 23:14

Mangrove wrote:Usually the snowfall is greater in locations near a major body of water, such as the Arctic Ocean.
I think I have to beg to disagree, it is not quite that simple.
Usually what is needed is condensation, like upward motion of the air containing moisture, which then falls out as snowfall.

Regards, Juha


User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 10993
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Re: Petsamo attack information

Postby Juha Tompuri » 15 Jan 2018 17:28

Juha Tompuri wrote:
Mangrove wrote:FINNISH:
... Kertomus Yläluostarin taistelusta 3.12.39[/url]...

...Weather: Partly cloudy, -12°C [c. -10°F]. Frost heaves, no snow.
As mentioned earlier the terrain for tanks for flanking manoeuvres was far from ideal, but as mentioned above, for a foot soldier, snow was not a problem during early (-mid?) December 1939.
Antero Vuorio at his book Petsamo Talvisodan kourissa at page 101, about the battle of Porojärvi, on 15th of December, mentions the following:
...Pakkanen oli jäädyttänyt suot ja järvet, joten maasto oli hyvin kulkukelpoista lumen vähyyden vuoksi. Sellaisella lumella kulki suomalainen suksi, mutta yhtä hyvin myös venäläinen huopatossu. ...

About like this:
As the marshes and lakes had frozed over and because of scarcity of snow, the terrain was very passable. On that kind of snow, both Finnish ski and Soviet felt boot worked as well.


Regards, Juha

Mangrove
Member
Posts: 1678
Joined: 25 Dec 2004 01:33

Re: Petsamo attack information

Postby Mangrove » 17 Jan 2018 19:57

Juha Tompuri wrote:About like this:
As the marshes and lakes had frozed over and because of scarcity of snow, the terrain was very passable. On that kind of snow, both Finnish ski and Soviet felt boot worked as well.


According to the information gathered by a Soviet weather station at Murmansk (N68°58, E33°03), the total amount of precipitation between 31 October and 31 November 1939 was 20.3 mm. The temperature during the same time period fluctuated between 5 and -4°C. The temperature does not take account the wind chill and the urban heat island, which means the temperature was probably below zero most of the time just outside Murmansk in October and November.

Based on the temperature and the amount of precipitation, there was roughly 20 - 30 cm of snow around Murmansk in 31 November 1939. Again, there was probably more snow in windswept areas.

User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 10993
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Re: Petsamo attack information

Postby Juha Tompuri » 26 Jan 2018 14:26

Mangrove wrote:
Juha Tompuri wrote:As mentioned earlier the terrain for tanks for flanking manoeuvres was far from ideal, but as mentioned above, for a foot soldier, snow was not a problem during early (-mid?) December 1939.


Usually the snowfall is greater in locations near a major body of water, such as the Arctic Ocean. Yläluostari is situated some 30 kilometres inland. According to a diary marking on 8 November 1939, there were already around 10 cm of snow near the coast.
How near the coast?

url=http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1608780]According to a diary marking on 8 November 1939[/url], there were already around 10 cm of snow near the coast.
...and according to the same source after two days, because of rain and temperatures over +0°C, nearly all of the the snow had melted away. After that, before Winter War, there had been thin layers of snow and rain coming and going. The weather at the outbreak of Winter War there was icy ground, with a little snow.

I find the Murmansk weather not that relevant, but:
According to the information gathered by a Soviet weather station at Murmansk (N68°58, E33°03), the total amount of precipitation between 31 October and 31 November 1939 was 20.3 mm. The temperature during the same time period fluctuated between 5 and -4°C. The temperature does not take account the wind chill and the urban heat island, which means the temperature was probably below zero most of the time just outside Murmansk in October and November.
AFAIK wind does not turn rain into snow.

Based on the temperature and the amount of precipitation, there was roughly 20 - 30 cm of snow around Murmansk in 31 November 1939. Again, there was probably more snow in windswept areas.
As above.
Most reasonably there was also rainfall that melted snow.

Regards, Juha

gottschs
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Nov 2017 14:21
Location: United States

Re: Petsamo attack information

Postby gottschs » 27 Jan 2018 03:43

It is truly amazing equipment worked and the men on both sides could continue the fight with those temps.

On a side note, was there a Finnish airfield up in that area or did they get air support from Rovaniemi?

User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 10993
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Re: Petsamo attack information

Postby Juha Tompuri » 27 Jan 2018 10:46

gottschs wrote:On a side note, was there a Finnish airfield up in that area or did they get air support from Rovaniemi?
There were two Finnish airfields at the region, at Salmijärvi and at Ylä-Luostari, but there were no Finnish Air Force at there. AFAIK, the Finnish troops at Petsamo region did not receive air support during the whole Winter War.
Salmijärvi airfield: http://www.sotahistoriallisetkohteet.fi ... /area/140/
Ylä-Luostari airfield: http://www.sotahistoriallisetkohteet.fi ... /area/140/

Regards, Juha

User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 10993
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Re: Petsamo attack information

Postby Juha Tompuri » 29 Jan 2018 09:33

The scarcity of snow at AFAIK Salmijärvi 14th(?) December 1939:
Image https://www.facebook.com/suomensotilas/ ... =3&theater

Regards, Juha

User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 10993
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Re: Petsamo attack information

Postby Juha Tompuri » 13 Feb 2018 18:46

Juha Tompuri wrote:The scarcity of snow at AFAIK Salmijärvi 14th(?) December 1939
Also seen at a Finnish newsreel.
Salmijärvi burning and Petsamo evacuees after the Winter War:


Regards, Juha


Return to “Winter War & Continuation War”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot]