Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
Hosted by Juha Tompuri
Mangrove
Member
Posts: 1944
Joined: 25 Dec 2004 01:33

Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by Mangrove » 23 Sep 2021 08:36

Here are all Finnish and some German ship claims from 1 June to 4 September 1944, excluding sorties connected to the Tuulos / Ту́локса landings discussed earlier, based on the war diaries of Ilmavoimien Esikunta and various other units. All times are standard Finnish time.

16 June 1944. Around 3.45 p.m (15:45). Eighteen Bristol Blenheim, ten Junkers Ju 88 and three Dornier Do 17 bombed Soviet convoy consisted of 50-60 ships at grid 143 D 4 and 5 (c. 15 km SE of Koivistonsaari / Koivusaari) at Gulf of Finland. Finnish bombers claimed hits to at least four ships. One ship was observed sinking during the attack. I/RTR 2 reported three ships were sunk immediately and a ship blew up 10 minutes later.

19 June 1944. Around 10.30 p.m. (22:30). Fourteen Bristol Blenheim, five Junkers Ju 88, three Ilyushin DB-3 and a Ilyushin IL-4 bombed Soviet convoy at Humaljoenlahti, 12 kilometres W of Seivästö and between Ristiniemi and Alvatinniemi at Gulf of Finland.

20 June 1944. Between 11.26 and 11.30 p.m. (23:26 and 23:30). Four Junkers Ju 88 bombed Soviet ships west of Humaljoenlahti (around Koivisto) at Gulf of Finland. Hits were observed in the immediate vicinity of the ships. 27. Raskas patteri fired upon the same ships at the same time.

21 June 1944. Between 12.00 - 12.35 p.m. Nine Curtiss Hawks from Hävittäjälentolaivue 32 strafed and capsized a boat near Lotinapelto / Lodeynoye Pole at Svir River. Two Curtiss Hawks from Hävittäjälentolaivue 32 strafed boats and pontoons near Lotinapelto / Lodeynoye Pole at Svir River between 1.10 and 2.50 p.m. (13.10 and 14.50).

1 July 1944. Around 2.35 p.m (14:35). Seven Finnish Junkers Ju 88 from Pommituslentolaivue 44 bombed six or seven large Soviet ships east of Pullinniemi and 3 light warships west of same (near Tuppuransaari) at the Gulf of Finland. Bombers claimed having sunk a large ship, damaging two others and sinking a smaller ship next to a larger ship. Between 6 a.m and 6 p.m. (06:00 and 18:00). Sixteen German FW-190 from II. Gruppe / Jagdgeschwader 54 bombed Soviet ships between Uuras and Kaislahti in four sorties at the Gulf of Finland.

3 July 1944. Around 6.00 p.m. (18:00). Eight Junkers Ju 88 from Pommituslentolaivue 44 tried bombing Soviet transport ships east of Tuppuransaari at Gulf of Finland, but couldn't find the targets. Instead, one Ju 88 bombed ships at Makslahti without result. Three Ju 88 bombed two Soviet ships at Koivistonsalmi but missed their targets.

4 July 1944. Between 12.58 and 1.15 a.m. (00:58 and 01:15). 23 Bristol Blenheim, 7 Junkers Ju 88, 1 Dornier Do 17, 1 Ilyushin DB-3 and 1 IL-4 bombed Soviet convoy between Tuppuransaari and Teikarsaari at the Gulf of Finland with 25800 kg of bombs. After bombing, a large explosion and black smoke was observed.

4 July 1944. Between 1.10 a.m and 1.12 p.m (13:10 and 13:12). Twelve Bristol Blenheim bombed Soviet ships between Uuras and Teikarsaari at the Gulf of Finland with 5275 kg of bombs. Bombers claimed a direct hit to one of the large ships, which sank. Two other ships caught fire.

5 July 1944. Between 12.42 and 12.43 a.m. Four Bristol Blenheim, three Dornier Do 17, a Ilyushin IL-4 and a DB-3 bombed Soviet ships east of Teikarsaari at the Gulf of Finland with 6925 kg of bombs. Bombers claimed direct hits to two ships. Between 4.11 and 4.13 p.m. (16:11 and 16:13) twelve Bristol Blenheim bombed the same ships with 5850 kg of bombs. Hits were observed 30 to 100 metres from the ships.

6 July 1944. Between 6.25 and 8.50 p.m. (18:25 and 20:50). 16 Bristol Blenheim and 9 Junkers Ju 88 bombed Soviet batteries, armours and pontoons at Uuras with 22200 kg of bombs. Bombers observed 45 ships, of which four ships were on fire at Vatnuori at the Gulf of Finland.

7 July 1944. Between 7.22 and 7.24 a.m. Nine Junkers Ju 88 bombed five Soviet ships with 13500 kg of bombs at Tapolanlahti (Uuras) at Gulf of Finland. Bombers claimed having scored direct hits two two large ships. Total of three ships were seen on fire. German FW-190 from II. Gruppe / Jagdgeschwader 54 bombed Soviet ships between Suonio and Esisaari (Uuras) at the Gulf of Finland between 6.00 a.m. and 6.00 p.m. (6:00 and 18:00).

8 July 1944. Between 6.00 a.m. and 6.00 p.m. (6:00 and 18:00). Three German FW-190 from II. Gruppe / Jagdgeschwader 54 bombed Soviet ships at Uuras in two sorties. They claimed having sunk at least two small vessels.

14 and 15 July 1944. Between 6.00 p.m. and 6.00 a.m. (18:00 and 06:00). 14 German FW-190 from II. Gruppe / Jagdgeschwader 54 bombed Soviet troops and barges at Vuosalmi in four sorties. They reported direct hits at the barges.

26 July 1944. Between 6.00 p.m. and 6.00 a.m. (18:00 and 06:00). 14 German FW-190 from II. Gruppe / Jagdgeschwader 54 bombed Soviet warehouses and pontoons at Uuras harbour in two sorties. Direct hits were reported among the pontoons.

8 August 1944. Between 6.00 p.m. and 6.00 a.m. (18:00 and 06:00). 35 German FW-190 from Schlachtgeschwader 5 bombed Soviet ships at south of Lavansaari and mouth of Narva Bay at the Gulf of Finland in two sorties. A tugboat caught fire and a minesweeper received multiple hits. The German planes operated from Utti in Southern Finland.

thungus
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 30 Jun 2021 13:42
Location: SPb

Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by thungus » 23 Sep 2021 21:22

Mangrove wrote:
23 Sep 2021 08:36
16 June 1944. Around 3.45 p.m (15:45). Eighteen Bristol Blenheim, ten Junkers Ju 88 and three Dornier Do 17 bombed Soviet convoy consisted of 50-60 ships at grid 143 D 4 and 5 (c. 15 km SE of Koivistonsaari / Koivusaari) at Gulf of Finland. Finnish bombers claimed hits to at least four ships. One ship was observed sinking during the attack. I/RTR 2 reported three ships were sunk immediately and a ship blew up 10 minutes later.
At 16h 46m Moscow time, 23 minesweeping boats from the 1st and 2nd divisions of minesweepers were attacked, guarded by 6 smoke boats and 7 MO- and BMO-type boats.
3 boats were damaged, 3 people were killed and 4 wounded. At 22h 30m, all boats returned to Kronstadt. 4 La-5s from the 10th GIAP KBF, covering the boats, claimed the shooting down of one Ju-88 at 16h 48m Moscow time, which, according to Soviet data, fell 2 km south of Koivisto.
Mangrove wrote:
23 Sep 2021 08:36
19 June 1944. Around 10.30 p.m. (22:30). Fourteen Bristol Blenheim, five Junkers Ju 88, three Ilyushin DB-3 and a Ilyushin IL-4 bombed Soviet convoy at Humaljoenlahti, 12 kilometres W of Seivästö and between Ristiniemi and Alvatinniemi at Gulf of Finland.
According to Soviet data, the attack was from 0h 20m to 1h 10m Moscow time on June 20. Boats and tenders in Humaloki and Olalahti were attacked. At the same time, they were shelled by coastal artillery from Bjerke Island. One boat was slightly damaged, several people were injured. In addition, during maneuvering, one armored boat ran aground.
Mangrove wrote:
23 Sep 2021 08:36
20 June 1944. Between 11.26 and 11.30 p.m. (23:26 and 23:30). Four Junkers Ju 88 bombed Soviet ships west of Humaljoenlahti (around Koivisto) at Gulf of Finland. Hits were observed in the immediate vicinity of the ships. 27. Raskas patteri fired upon the same ships at the same time.
A reconnaissance detachment (120 people) of the 260th Marine Brigade was attacked, sailing from Humaloki on four tenders, guarded by 1 armored boat, 1 patrol boat and 3 smoke launchers. There was no significant damage during the attack.
From 04h 30m to 04h 50m Moscow time on June 21 the detachment successfully landed on the island of Piisaari.

Mangrove
Member
Posts: 1944
Joined: 25 Dec 2004 01:33

Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by Mangrove » 24 Sep 2021 21:49

thungus wrote:
23 Sep 2021 21:22
4 La-5s from the 10th GIAP KBF, covering the boats, claimed the shooting down of one Ju-88 at 16h 48m Moscow time, which, according to Soviet data, fell 2 km south of Koivisto.
According to the Finnish mission report, a Dornier Do 17 from Pommituslentolaivue 46 was attacked by one of four "LaGG-3" fighters. The Dornier returned fire, dived from 3400 to 100 metres and got away.

lupodimare89
Member
Posts: 516
Joined: 07 Mar 2013 01:32

Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by lupodimare89 » 06 Nov 2021 11:55

This is an ever-interesting thread! (being accurate, simple and point directly to each claim/damage etc. without extra talk).

Also thanks for the past clarification of fate of bomber BL-146

ArvoLV
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: 18 Dec 2019 07:30
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by ArvoLV » 04 Aug 2022 01:05

Esteemed forum colleagues;

I note with interest that in the 01 August 2019 posting, "Mangrove" posted that during the month of July 1941, Finnish-marked Tupolev SB bombers conducted operational sorties against Soviet targets in Estonia.

Is it, by change known, what the Individual Aircraft Number/IAN(s) of the Finnish aircraft involved in these sorties were. I am preparing some artwork on these a/c, and would very much like to add the correct IAN to the illustrations. Could "VP-10" be one of the a/c involved? Do photographs exist of these a/c, that can be shared w/me?

Thank you kindly in advance for any/all assistance efforts.

Regagrds;

Arvo LV

Mangrove
Member
Posts: 1944
Joined: 25 Dec 2004 01:33

Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by Mangrove » 04 Aug 2022 08:46

ArvoLV wrote:
04 Aug 2022 01:05
Is it, by change known, what the Individual Aircraft Number/IAN(s) of the Finnish aircraft involved in these sorties were. I am preparing some artwork on these a/c, and would very much like to add the correct IAN to the illustrations. Could "VP-10" be one of the a/c involved? Do photographs exist of these a/c, that can be shared w/me?
Complete after-action reports for these sorties are available online. Missing information can be obtained from flight log books, which are available at the National Archives of Finland.

1 July 1941. 4.25 p.m. Tupolev SB, aircraft registration is not indicated.
2 July 1941. 5.53 p.m. Tupolev SB, aircraft registration is not indicated.
8 July 1941. 10.05 a.m. Tupolev SB, aircraft registration is not indicated.
9 July 1941. 7.05 p.m. Tupolev SB, "VP-8".

22 July 1941. 7.40 a.m. Tupolev SB, "VP-3".
24 July 1941. 10.40 a.m. Tupolev SB, "VP-8".
24 July 1941. 6.35 p.m. Tupolev SB, "VP-8".
31 July 1941. 6.40 a.m. Tupolev SB, "VP-4".

2 August 1941. 4.35 a.m. Tupolev SB, aircraft registration is not indicated.
3 August 1941. 7.25 p.m. Tupolev SB, "VP-2".
2 September 1941. 6.20 and 7.00 a.m. Tupolev SB, "VP-4".

ArvoLV
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: 18 Dec 2019 07:30
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by ArvoLV » 04 Aug 2022 21:25

Honored Mangrove;

Your reply to my query helps me immensely. Thank you kindly for the information. Now I only need to locate some suitable photographs of the few Finnish-marked Tupolev SB a/c in question ;) .

Again, many, many thanks.

Regards;

Arvo LV

ArvoLV
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: 18 Dec 2019 07:30
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by ArvoLV » 07 Aug 2022 23:27

On the Finnish-marked Tupolev SB, Finnish IAN "VP-8", there are three ship-stencils affixed to the rudder. They are accompanied by some numbers - the weight of the sunk vessel as well as the date of the sinking. Regretfully, I am no able to make out the numbers. Can I please be pointed in the right direction, so I can ascertain same? Thank you kindly in advance for your help. regards; Arvo LV

User avatar
Juha Tompuri
Forum Staff
Posts: 11541
Joined: 11 Sep 2002 20:02
Location: Mylsä

Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by Juha Tompuri » 08 Aug 2022 06:04

Kalevi Keskinen and Kari Stenman book Suomen Ilmavoimien historia #24 page 29:
Year 1941
22th July 2000t
24th July 2500t
25th July 4000t

Regards, Juha

ArvoLV
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: 18 Dec 2019 07:30
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

Re: Aircraft vs. ships & airwar over convoys etc.

Post by ArvoLV » 08 Aug 2022 18:22

Honored Juha Tompuri;

Thank you for the assist, info addition. Am most appreciative of same.

Regards;

Arvo LV

Return to “Winter War & Continuation War”