Finnish abbreviations

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
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janner
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Post by janner » 12 Jan 2007 16:31

Is there any contemporary word(s) in English which would then mean "guerrilla warfare" committed by soldiers?


Asymmetric warfare can be conducted by either regular or irregular combatants, guerrillas or terrorists - this seems the closest approximation. Soldiers conduct "raids".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_%28military%29

Yes, your one was basically correct. The co-operation with armoured elements was not realized before the year 1941


I used Combined Arms because I understand they also formed the infantry element in the Cavalry Brigade and didn't want to exclude that from the definition.

Finnish like terrain because we have only Defence Forces and not operate in plain open terrain


I disagree, I'm not talking about Russian Steppes or Desert but rolling countryside or, for example, when conducting Urban Operations even a large park, car park, airport or other open area would be better suited to armoured units than dismounted troops.

At unit level would not the "windswept plains of Ostrobothnia" be classed as open?

http://virtual.finland.fi/netcomm/news/ ... SAID=36461

Certainly South western Finland offers many opportunities for mounted manoeuvre as did areas around Lake Ladoga/Karelian Isthmus when they were within National Borders.

Thus, during the Continuation War, as I understand it, the Finnish Armoured Division was normally committed in those areas in which the agility and tactical capabilities of its equipment could be used to their best advantage.

Still, I think we've reached a solution on the HQ thing!

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 16 Jan 2007 15:07

janner wrote:
Is there any contemporary word(s) in English which would then mean "guerrilla warfare" committed by soldiers?

Asymmetric warfare can be conducted by either regular or irregular combatants, guerrillas or terrorists - this seems the closest approximation. Soldiers conduct "raids".


So, I can only say "sissi warfare"? 8O

janner wrote:
janner wrote:Yes, your one was basically correct. The co-operation with armoured elements was not realized before the year 1941

I used Combined Arms because I understand they also formed the infantry element in the Cavalry Brigade and didn't want to exclude that from the definition.


Right. But the difference between Jäger and Cavalry troops was only that the first ones rode by bicycles and the the latter ones by horses until in 1943 they too used bicycles. They were basically quite similar light infantry troops. In this sence Cavalry Brigade was equal to Jäger Brigade (before and during the Winter War it even had an Armoured Detachment which although during the war had only one armoured car).

janner wrote:
Harri wrote:Finnish like terrain because we have only Defence Forces and not operate in plain open terrain

I disagree, I'm not talking about Russian Steppes or Desert but rolling countryside or, for example, when conducting Urban Operations even a large park, car park, airport or other open area would be better suited to armoured units than dismounted troops.


That kind of open areas are not a problem. Finnish troops are "universally" trained but there are also more specialized troops. For example Guards Regiment located in Helsinki trains light troops (Jägers and MPs) mainly for urban warfare. Personally I see the role of the armoured troops rather limited in an urban warfare. They are more likely just in a fire support role.

janner wrote:At unit level would not the "windswept plains of Ostrobothnia" be classed as open?


No. Maybe plain but not quite open in the sense of what I meant (I had some sort of desert and steppes in my mind).

janner wrote:Certainly South western Finland offers many opportunities for mounted manoeuvre as did areas around Lake Ladoga/Karelian Isthmus when they were within National Borders.


There are certain areas which are easier than the others.

janner wrote:Thus, during the Continuation War, as I understand it, the Finnish Armoured Division was normally committed in those areas in which the agility and tactical capabilities of its equipment could be used to their best advantage.


Right. But Soviets also attacked there and division (actually in the summer 1944 it mostly operated separately in two parts: 1.) Armoured Brigade and 2.) Jäger Brigade reinforced with Assault-Gun Battalion) was mainly used in counter-attacks. I think Armoured Division could have been used also elsewhere.

janner wrote:Still, I think we've reached a solution on the HQ thing!


Yep.

uletnah
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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by uletnah » 04 Apr 2008 04:38

Здравствуйте. Скажите пожалуйста, что обозначает финская аббревиатура на картах KNO. Обычно она находится рядом с постройками.

Variant in PROMT transfer:
Hello. Tell please, that the Finnish abbreviation on cards KNO designates. Usually it is near to constructions.

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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by Esa K » 04 Apr 2008 10:42

Hi uletnah.

KNO, or mostly written as kno, thats marked near constructions in Finnish maps is an abbreviation for Kartano. Kartano is = estate, manor, mansion, yard.


Best regards

Esa K

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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by nometorres » 29 Apr 2008 19:37

What's the Finnish word for Anti-tank Battalion?

Thanx in advance!

Ernesto

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JTV
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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by JTV » 30 Apr 2008 07:28

nometorres wrote:What's the Finnish word for Anti-tank Battalion?

Thanx in advance!

Ernesto


While that would translate literally as Panssarintorjunta Pataljoona (Pst.P) during World War 2 Finnish Army had only one such unit, which was called Panssarijääkäripataljoona (Ps.JP). Literally the name of this unit would translate as "Panzer Jaeger Battalion". The particular unit belonged to Jaeger Brigade of Armor Division during Continuation War. Otherwise AFAIK (antitank) gun companies (Tykkikomppania = TK) were not permamently attached to each other to form battalions.

BTW: Nowadays Finnish Army "Panssarijääkäripataljoona" is no longer an antitank-unit, instead Finnish military now uses it as a unit type for mechanized infantry battalions.

Jarkko

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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by nometorres » 30 Apr 2008 09:18

JTV wrote:While that would translate literally as Panssarintorjunta Pataljoona (Pst.P) during World War 2 Finnish Army had only one such unit, which was called Panssarijääkäripataljoona (Ps.JP). Literally the name of this unit would translate as "Panzer Jaeger Battalion". The particular unit belonged to Jaeger Brigade of Armor Division during Continuation War.


Thanx Jarkko, that's what I was looking for. If I'm not wrong this unit had 12 75mm PaKs and 6 50mm ones.

Ernesto

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JTV
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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by JTV » 30 Apr 2008 10:46

nometorres wrote:
JTV wrote:While that would translate literally as Panssarintorjunta Pataljoona (Pst.P) during World War 2 Finnish Army had only one such unit, which was called Panssarijääkäripataljoona (Ps.JP). Literally the name of this unit would translate as "Panzer Jaeger Battalion". The particular unit belonged to Jaeger Brigade of Armor Division during Continuation War.


Thanx Jarkko, that's what I was looking for. If I'm not wrong this unit had 12 75mm PaKs and 6 50mm ones.

Ernesto


Yes, during battles of summer 1944 the particular unit it had 3 (antitank) gun companies (with 6 antitank-guns in each company). The unit was among the first in Finnish Army to receive (six) 50 PstK/38 (5.0 cm Pak 38) in 1942 and after to receive (six) 75 PstK/40 (7.5 cm Pak 40) in year 1943. Also during summer 1944 one of these three companies (4th Gun Co) was armed with 50 PstK/38 (5.0 cm Pak 38) and the other two (6th and 7th Gun Companies) with 75 PstK/40.

Some info copied from my earlier posting in this forum:

"Panssarijääkäripataljoona (Panzer Jaeger Battalion) was established 27th - 28th June 1941 as effective antitank reserve of Finnish High Command. First the battalion got three (antitank) gun companies:
- 1st Gun Company
- 4th Gun Company
- 6th Gun Company
When established the Panzer Jaeger Battalion was attached to 1st Jaeger Brigade and remained so until end of Continuation War. First the battalion had 37 PstK/40 [3,7 cm Pak 35/36] at-guns. During 1941 some of the guns were replaced with captured 45-mm at-guns. Towing vehicles used for towing the guns early on were Soviet made captured Ford AA and US-made (6-wheeled) International trucks. 4th Gun Company was rearmed with 50 PstK/38 (5,0 cm Pak 38) at-guns at September of 1942. The Battalion started got its trucks replaced with A-20 Komsomots towing tractors at 1942 and it seems that all were probably replaced before battles of 1944. Gun Company of 1st Jaeger Brigade was added to Panzer Jaeger Battalion at 30th of June 1942 and renamed as 7th Gun Company. This made the battalion four gun companies strong, around the same the battalions HQ Platoon was enlargened to HQ Company.

6th Gun Company was rearmed with 75 PstK/40 (7,5 cm Pak 40) at-guns at July of 1943. 1st Gun Company was disestablished at 7th of December 1943. 7th Gun Company continued using 37 PstK/40 (3,7 cm Pak 35/36) at-guns, but as it had Stielgranade 41 for them the guns were not totally uneffective against new tanks. At 18th of March 1944 also 7th Gun Company was rearmed with 75 PstK/40 at-guns. "

Jarkko

Arto O
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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by Arto O » 31 Jan 2011 21:53

Hi.
"Sissi" means troops that infiltrate or stay behind enemy troops, and commit raids against the enemy: blowing up brigdes, ambushes, harrash or listen any communications lines etc. A mixture of commando and guerrilla.

Cheers
Arto
ex sissi at beginning of 1980

Arto O
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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by Arto O » 31 Jan 2011 21:57

Sorry again,

One of our officer was sent to participate in a course in US Rangers. That is maybe the igual in US.

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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by Caractacus » 20 Feb 2011 13:00

Just want to say that, as an English translation lecturer in Finland, you have all done an excellent job with this. I read through the four pages above, paying special attention to the 'heimopataljoona' issue, and the forms you selected match mine in almost every case - so obviously I approve! ;) My academic background is in history, my research degree was in military history (though classical, not modern), and most of my reading these days is WWII. I am busy translating a book on one of the veterans of heimopataljoona 3, and I have used the form '3rd Volunteer Battalion' (as I explain at its first occurrence in the text where the volunteers come from); however, I will now consider adding 'Ingrian', possibly in brackets, either after '3rd' or at the end. Great work, guys, and thanks!
Damon.

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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by marcopolo » 24 Sep 2011 07:47

What does the abbreviation - Vlh.R (Jatkosodan historia volume 6 page 393).

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John Hilly
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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by John Hilly » 24 Sep 2011 11:12

It is a Searchlight Regiment!

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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by marcopolo » 24 Sep 2011 11:32

:D

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JTV
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Re: Finnish abbreviations

Post by JTV » 24 Sep 2011 16:30

John Hilly wrote:It is a Searchlight Regiment!
Are you certain about that? I am wondering because the biggest wartime searchlight unit that could find being listed was Valonheitinpatteristo (Searchlight Battalion) established in Helsinki in January of 1944.

Jarkko

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