Soviet armoured units on Carelian Isthmus in the summer 1944

[Mangrove]

Unit strengths according to IV Corps' intelligence.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kuid=3566045 etc.

1st Separate Armoured Car Battalion:
July 1st = c. 20 BA-10s

1st Red Banner Tank Brigade:
June 21st = 10
June 23rd = 4
July 1st = 33 T-34s and 14 T-60s

2nd Separate Tank Regiment:
June 26th = 2

22nd Separate Tank Regiment:
June 21st = 14

26th Separate Guards Heavy Tank Regiment:
July 1st = 21 IS

29th Tank Brigade:
July 7th = 68, of which 26 were T-34s and 42 T-70s.

30th Guards Tank Brigade:
July 1st = 22, of which 18 were T-34s, rest T-26s, T-60s and T-70s?

31st Separate Guards Heavy Tank Regiment:
July 1st = 0?
July 20th = 30 T-34s

98th Separate Tank Regiment:
June 26th = 4 T-34s

152nd Tank Brigade:
June 13th = 33
June 21st = 10
June 22nd = 2 T-34s
July 1st = 0?

185th Separate Tank Regiment:
July 1st = 0?

220th Tank Brigade:
June 25th = 46, of which 28 were T-34s.
July 1st = 32 T-34s and 17 T-60s.

226th Separate Tank Regiment:
July 12th = 20 T-34/76s and 10 T-34/85s

260th Separate Guards Heavy Tank Regiment:
June 26th = 15, of which 5 were Churchills.

394th Guards Separate SPG Regiment:
June 26th = 21

397th Guards Separate SPG Regiment:
June 26th = 11

1439th SPG Regiment:
June 26th = 10

[larth]

Here is one piece from the Dechiphered... thread http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... i#p1459231:

July 15th. 08.20 - 08.50 a.m. Unknown Engineer Battalion 17 to Combat Engineer Battalion HQ [?]
We have transported these units [over Vuoksi River]
319th Detached Anti-Tank Battalion
372nd Division
Twenty KVs.
Two tractors.
Eleven T-34s

Combat supplies, food and the division supply will be transported over during the day. Mission for the night; to transport two regiments from 382nd Division, a ISU-122 and a company subjected [to 382.D?] over the river. Eighty meters of finished infantry bridge was decommissioned due of the bombing and thus the bridge can not be finished for the deadline. Honov (name?] is taking apart and repairing bridge A-3 (a codename). Reparing the bridge is limited because the wave created by an explosion has broken the boats. Kunewanskij will be subjected to Army Corps on June 15th, 04.00 a.m. and Jerostoff on June 15th 04.00 a.m. to 115th AC.

Andreijeff

The same to same.
I discontinued the transportation of sixteen ISU-152s on 03.28 a.m. The others are not in order. Two regiments from 372nd Division and whole 13th Division are transported over the river. A regiment is to be go over [Poijo?] bridge. Two regiments went through by 03.00 a.m.

Andreijeff

I guess that settles it if there were ISU-122's used. Maybe only by engineer units as (I think) someone mentioned here.

best regards,
Lars

[Mangrove]

I guess that settles it if there were ISU-122's used. Maybe only by engineer units as (I think) someone mentioned here.

Well, no. If you look the Finnish text you'll notice I've misspelled the ISU-152 as 122. Sorry! Here is the original if you want to check it yourself.

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kuid=3499714

[larth]

To bad, guess we need to continue to chase the ISU-122 a bit longer.

[Slava_M]

Here is one piece from the Dechiphered... thread http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... i#p1459231:

July 15th. 08.20 - 08.50 a.m.
...
372nd Division
...
Andreijeff

I guess that settles it if there were ISU-122's used. Maybe only by engineer units as (I think) someone mentioned here.

best regards,
Lars

There is some error with numbers - 372 RD had been in Viipuri area at the time, and in the second wave attack in Vuosalmi 327 RD had taken part.

[Esa K]

Hi.

First, thank you Martti Kujansuu for digging theese figures up, have had some of them earlier, but with the additions you found it is very very useful information.

Second:

260th Separate Guards Heavy Tank Regiment June 26th = 15, of which 5 were Churchills.

...at last, an indicium on that my old thought that the Churhills in Viipuri/Viborg belongs to the 260th Separate Guards Heavy Tank Regiment is correct!

2nd Separate Tank Regiment = 2

This unit, i belive, is the 2nd Tank-training Regiment that was formed in Leningrad, in 1942 maybe? Have to check it further...

22nd Separate Tank Regiment June 21st = 14

This must, or could, be the 22nd Engineers... thats mentioned by sapa/Mats on page 3 in this thread.

]29th Tank Brigade July 7th = 68, of which 26 were T-34s and 42 T-70s

And a short comment on this if someone is using this thread title as a guide, 29 TBR was not a unit of the Leningrad front on the Carelian Isthmus in July 1944, it was at the Carelian front.


Thanks again and best regards

Esa K (now the semi ghost )

[Mangrove]

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kuid=3048783

27th [Separate Tank Regiment?]:
June 21st = 14

30th Guards Tank Brigade:
July 1st = 22, of which 18 were T-34s, rest T-26s, T-60s and T-70s?

June 21st = 33

220th Tank Brigade:
June 25th = 46, of which 28 were T-34s.
July 1st = 32 T-34s and 17 T-60s.

June 24th = 46

[Mangrove]

To bad, guess we need to continue to chase the ISU-122 a bit longer.

Combat report below suggest Finnish assault teams destroyed five "JS-122"s, a "SU-152" and a T-34 at Kokkomäki/Ihantala on August 5th 1944. Three more T-34s might have sustained some damage. By the way I have never heard of this operation, other than the death of General Vihma.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kuid=3566115

[John Hilly]

Now Martti, You just don't remember.
This attack is descriped or mentioned in every book about Tali-Ihantala!
J-P

[John Hilly]

Howdy!
In and out of the Topic, for those who happen to be in Finland tonight.

YLE TV-2 shows (as a replay) a documentary: "Ihantalan ihme" (the Miracle of Ihantala) at 22.05 o'clock.
It is quite well done, and worth watching although one could have seen it before.

Beware
Juha-Pekka

[Esa K]

Hi.

At an other forum Martti Kujansuu gave the direct link to one of theese interesting documents:

digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kuid=3565977

2nd Separate Tank Regiment = 2

This unit, i belive, is the 2nd Tank-training Regiment that was formed in Leningrad, in 1942 maybe? Have to check it further...

And suddenly when i saw the loss figures again of the "2.Ps.R" in the link I remembered this:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 6&start=15

So, it could be so that this 2.Ps.R that appears in Finnish documents is a missidentifivation of 27 OTP...


Best regards

Esa K

[larth]

1238th SPG Regiment : - : Lt. Col I. D. Kotov : - : SU-76M : - : 30.Gds AC/21.A : - : 108.AC/21.A : - : 3.Mob. Gr. : - : Subordinated to 90.D 14/7 1944

Dear Esa
Only small corrections need. I think the list is complete, I can't find any other soviet tank unit in Karelian Isthmus (but armored train and armored car units).
..
1238th SPG Regiment - may be SU-152

This seems to be indicated by http://tankfront.ru/finland/tv_finland/06.html (translation by google) also:

Основную часть наиболее качественных танков представляли Т-34-76 обр. 1943 г. и новые Т-34-85 обр. 1944 г. Среди самоходок встречались СУ-76, СУ-152 (1238-й сап) и более грозные ИСУ-122 и ИСУ-152.

The bulk of the highest quality tanks were T-34-76 arr. 1943 and the new T-34-85 arr. 1944 Among the self-propelled met SU-76, SU-152 (1238 th SAP) and more menacing, and ISU-122 ISU-152.

best regards,
Lars

[Mangrove]

On the tactical numbers:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kuid=3566793

Sv.tiedon 16.6. mukaan kuuluvat psv.torninumerot 40-43 Ps.R 124:lle. (todettu maaliskuussa 44 Olhavan rintamalla). Kuitenkin on po.sv. viime kesäkuussa Terijoella nähnyt yhden Ps.R 124:n vaunun, jossa oli n:o 521.

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/fullpic.ka?kuid=3566931

Uudet tiedot vih:n panssarien torninumeroista vahvistavat aikaisempia havaintoja. Käytettävissä olevan aineiston perusteella näyttää siltä, että seuraavat numerosarjat on jaettu alla luetelluille ps.yksiköille:
100-120. Ps.R 70. T-34. Tukenut Salmissa 272.D:aa.
121-186. 29.Ps.Pr. T-34 ja T-70. Ollut Loimolan suunnalla.
300-364. 7.Ka.Ps.Pr. T-34 ja T-70. "" Lemetin "".

500-520. Er.Ps.R. 222. T-34. "" Kannaksella.
521-?. Er.Ps.R 124. T-34. "" Kannaksella.
701-721. Ka.Lm.Ps.R 31. KV 1 ja JS 122. "" Kannaksella.
750-770. Er.Ps.R 27. T-34. "" "".
900-920. Er.Ps.R 226. T-34. "" "".

[Esa K]

Hi...

701-721. Ka.Lm.Ps.R 31. KV 1 ja JS 122.
750-770. Er.Ps.R 27. T-34.

..and YES YES YES...

Thanks MARTTI K...

..and...

BEST OF REGARDS

Esa K

[Esa K]

Hi

Whitch Russian units had the T-34/85 tank?

... Almost convinced that the 27th Separate Tank Regiment had the type, and I have some ideas about that the 222th Separate Tank Regiment also had them...

900-920. Er.Ps.R 226. T-34. "" "".

I think we now can conclude that the 226 Separate Tank Regiment had T-34-85 tanks, cause there is photos of destroyed tanks of that type, from the Soviet bridgehead at Vuosalmi, wich have tactical numbers in the low 900-series painted on them. Still there could be possible that also 222 OTP had the vechicle type in question, but that now need more solid proof.


Best regards

Esa K