Soviet-Finnisch monument in Karelia

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Semenov
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Soviet-Finnisch monument in Karelia

Post by Semenov » 17 Jun 2007 15:14

Hi,
Few days ago I'm return from Karelia. There I have seen this monument.

Regards!
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Baltas
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momument

Post by Baltas » 17 Jun 2007 15:50

Hello Semenov

In wich part of Karelia are this monument Russian occupied or free?

Regard Baltas

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BIGpanzer
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Post by BIGpanzer » 17 Jun 2007 16:57

Good words!

I saw quite similar monument ["Cross of Sorrow"] on our way with Russian colleagues to Petrozavodsk [IIRC road Petrozavodsk-Suojärvi] in Russian Karelia, that was several years ago. I even found several Soviet and Finnish cartridge cases there during 10 min rest [that was the place where Soviet 18th infantry division and 34th light tank brigade were encircled and defeated because of quite idiotic command and absence of food supplies]. I bought in Lemetti small book on Karelian/Russian about the event, fortunatelly, I still have it

Best regards, BP


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Part of this post and replies to it were splitted to a more relevant thread: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 19#1072919 (Soviet casualties at Lemetti encirclements )
/Juha

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: momument

Post by Juha Tompuri » 17 Jun 2007 20:51

Baltas wrote:Hello Semenov

In wich part of Karelia are this monument
Near Pitkäranta
http://heninen.net/risti/english.htm

Regards, Juha

Baltas
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J

Post by Baltas » 19 Jun 2007 12:02

Juha Tompuri wrote:
Thank you Juha now it seams to me it is in land occupied by Russians.

Regard Baltas

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Bair
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Post by Bair » 19 Jun 2007 13:22

Baltas,

if you continue posting your comments in this matter, you are risking to be banned from this forum.

regards,

Bair

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o

Post by Baltas » 19 Jun 2007 20:36

Dear Bair what is wrong?why do you think my opinion must correspond with Moscow official opinion or maybe do you think that lands was ceded to russians by free will of peaceful finish people but not result of wars and rude threat of outside military power so if you can show your persuasive arguments and sources it will convince me that I am wrong.


Regard Baltas

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Bair
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Post by Bair » 19 Jun 2007 21:03

Dear Baltas,

"occupied by the Russians" is a wrong and rasist statement to use.

Th area was ceded to the USSR under peace treaty of Paris after the WWII. During the whole period after the WWII, even in 1991, when the USSR collapsed and the Baltic states became independent, the Finnish government did not demand their return. The border was set there. Full stop.

Russians is a rasist statement to use in this context, as the two sides that signed the treaty in 1947 were the Finnish Republic and the Soviet Union. Don't try to blame the Russian people for the crimes of the Soviet regime and be more careful with your statements. You do not have to demonstrate your political views here. This is a forum dedicated to military history, not throwing accusations at each other. Each country and nation has enough of things to accuse neighbours for after the WWII in Europe.

with best regards,

Bair

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janner
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Post by janner » 19 Jun 2007 21:49

Baltas,

Bair is the last person to accuse of being a Soviet apologist and as for attacking BP’s academic credentials – he is one of the few professional academics around here and provides challenging perspectives. I really suggest you don’t discount them too quickly.
Where we can to see that on a web?
Since when has the internet been of higher value with respect to source material than official written records. It would be a sad loss to historical research to discount the newly declassified Soviet documents as propaganda. Isn’t every historical record a product of its culture and time? Hopefully by comparing our sources with open minds, we might get a little closer to reality.

Regards,

Baltas
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b

Post by Baltas » 20 Jun 2007 08:52

Bair wrote:
This area was ceded to the USSR under peace treaty
Dear Bair simple question:Was it land ceded to USSR by free will of finish people?
I meant no demands to cede this land to USSR.

Suddenly waked up finns and decided give away some lands because USSR very peaceful friendly neighbour :lol:

Regard Baltas

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r

Post by Baltas » 20 Jun 2007 11:42

janner wrote:
Since when has the internet been of higher value with respect to source material than official written records.
I am not expect to get source material via postmail or to go to Moscow but we both know that via web we can get even books only need have vizacard :D

Regard Baltas

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janner
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Post by janner » 20 Jun 2007 12:48

Baltas,

It is normally considered sufficient by even the most stringent of academic to cite author, title and page number rather than supply the a facsimile copy by post.

Still, you seem determined to flame everyone who dares to question you – count me out, life is too short.

Aye,

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 20 Jun 2007 13:46

" Time - blood ". It is not necessary to waste time on empty chatter.

Any will tell, how many Finnish monuments WWII now are in territory of Russia?

Regards/

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 20 Jun 2007 14:29

Alex Yeliseenko wrote:Any will tell, how many Finnish monuments WWII now are in territory of Russia?
76 (if I counted right) according to this list (in Finnish) http://www.sotavainajat.net/perussivut/ ... merkit.htm
English summary: http://www.sotavainajat.net/perussivut/ ... nglish.htm

Regards, Juha

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Alex Yeliseenko
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Post by Alex Yeliseenko » 20 Jun 2007 15:24

OK. Great Tnx, Juha.

I read, that the Finnish weapon found even in area Tuapse.

Regards.

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