T-46 in Winter war?

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Steady
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T-46 in Winter war?

Post by Steady » 06 Feb 2008 22:50

I got my hands on the book "Russian tanks of WW II - Stalins armored might" byt Tim Bean and Will Fowler.

The book carries on many of the misconceptions of earlier similar books and contains other rather shallow points, for example stating that JS-2 was the most powerful tank of the war. History researches should know better than claiming anything this general on an argument that can be approached from multiple points.

But, the book has lots of fancy pictures, so it is is an entertaining read.

The book says that 70 examples of the T-46 tank, an improvement of T-26 with Christie suspension, were built and these were used in 1940 against Finns.

Did Finns identify these tanks from the more common tank types? Certainly none were captured?

Here also, a picture from the book with Finns inspecting a pair of captured and partly stripped down t-37's.
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Rodan Lewarx
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Post by Rodan Lewarx » 07 Feb 2008 09:30

Hi Steady!
Only 4 serial tanks T-46 (T-46-1) was built. That tank was very expensive for a light tank, its cost was similar to cost of medium T-28 so it was no reason to manufacture it. The history of T-46 development you can find in the book of Michail Svirin "The armor is strong. The history of soviet tank. 1919 - 1937" (in russian, don't know was it translated to other languages or not). Svirin wrote his books by materials of russian archives and his information is reliable. Because of that statement about 70(!) T-46 is incorrect. I haven't information about using of T-46 in Winter war but I think it's possible.

About suspension. Tank had 4 pairs of track wheels and 2 pairs of support rollers, 2 driving sprocket and 2 idler wheels with tensioner mechanism. We can see that Christie suspension is different. ;)

Index T-46 was used for other tanks too, but all of them were experimental models and didn't used in combat.

Here is a picture of T-46 in museum of GPW (Moscow):
http://www.museum-tank.ru/IIwar/tables2/t46.html

Regards

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Post by Juha Tompuri » 07 Feb 2008 13:15


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BIGpanzer
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Post by BIGpanzer » 07 Feb 2008 14:52

JT wrote:
Sosnovo = Rautu?
Yes, Rautu till 1948 - http://enclo.lenobl.ru/showObject.do?object=1803558138

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Post by Juha Tompuri » 07 Feb 2008 16:00

BIGpanzer wrote:
JT wrote:
Sosnovo = Rautu?
Yes, Rautu till 1948 - http://enclo.lenobl.ru/showObject.do?object=1803558138
A photo of the T-46-1 from there has now disappeared:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... ht=#887669

Regards, Juha

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Post by BIGpanzer » 07 Feb 2008 17:00

JT wrote:
A photo of the T-46-1 from there has now disappeared:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... ht=#887669
Because IIRC I deleted quite many my old photos in quizes to free the memory space.
Yes, here is the quote from that my old post
That was Soviet flame throwing wheeled-tracked tank T-46-1. Two prototypes were built by Kirov pilot engineering plant No. 185 (Leningrad) in 1935-1936. They were successfully tested by the army and it was planned to start their large serial production by Voroshilov plant No. 174 instead of light tanks T-26. In December 1936 four serial tanks (50 were ordered as the first series) were produced but then the production stopped because the tank was very complicated.

T-46-1 could be equipped with 45mm gun or 76.2mm gun PS-3, also it had smoke curtain installation and radio station. The tank could move on wheels immediately after the damage of tracks.

Specifications: 17.2 t; 3 men crew; 1x45mm gun mod. 1934 (101 shells) + 3x7.62mm MGs (including one AA, 2709 rounds) + flame thrower KS-45 (50 l of burning mixture); 8-15 mm armor; 330 hp engine MT-5-1; 58 km/h on tracks or 80 km/h on wheels; 225-400 km range (428 l of petrol).

Several experimental AFVs were developed, using T-46 chassis: telemechanical tank T-46-2 (1937); chemical tank XT-46 with modified flame thrower (500 l, range 60 m) for flame throwing + smoke generation + area contamination by poison gas (1937); T-46-3 with sloped armor plates (1938); SPG AT-2 with 76.2 mm gun PS-3 (1937); command tank T-46-4 (1937). Also special diesel was developed for T-46 tanks. But all works were stopped in 1938.

http://mtg.domek.org/rosja/foto/t46.jpg (wheeled-tracked flame throwing tank T-46-1)
The photo of restored T-46-1 above was from Moscow museum of Great Patriotic war. That unique tank was lost during the Winter war and was found in the Karelian isthmus in 2002 - http://www.pobeda-60.ru/site/reportagi/183/pic11.jpg
Regards, BP

P.S. Juha, you mentioned the description of T-46-1 in Moscow Museum of Great Patriotic war - http://tanksinmoscow.com/Poklon/Foto2/T-46_01.htm
Don't belive to such descriptions too much because I was very dissapointed (because this is a museum = research organization to some degree also) when I saw the descriptions near deck-houses of two submarines (IIRC L-3 and Shch-307) there recently, they mentioned even more successful victories than described in the most propaganda old Soviet sources (seems to be that nobody from museum staff reads more modern books!).

PS2 - from http://www.fortification.ru
T-46-1 when found in Karelian Isthmus [the area of 29th Karelian fortified sector] in the beginning of 2000s. There is an opinion that this exemplar was used by Soviets without chassis as defensive armored firing-point armed with 45mm gun in 1941 not only during the Winter war.
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And partially restored (modern photo, Moscow museum of GPW)
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 07 Feb 2008 18:02

Thanks for digging up the Karelian Isthmus photos.
BIGpanzer wrote:Don't belive to such descriptions too much
You don't have to be worried about that at my case :wink:
BIGpanzer wrote:There is an opinion that this exemplar was used by Soviets without chassis as defensive armored firing-point armed with 45mm gun in 1941 not only during the Winter war.

Yes, it's more than probable that it was dug there 1940-1941 after the Winter War.
Keksgolmsky (Käkisalmi) sector at so called "Molotov Line"
http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/weap ... es1941.htm

Regards, Juha

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Post by BIGpanzer » 07 Feb 2008 18:58

JT wrote:
Thanks for digging up the Karelian Isthmus photos.
You are welcome, everything for your and other forummembers pleasure :wink:
JT wrote:
You don't have to be worried about that at my case :wink:
I don't worry but I watch for your case very carefully :wink: :P
You posted the photos with info from GPW museum without any comments from your side. GPW museum descriptions are incorrect very often, they represents pseudo-patriotic info in my opinion.

Regards, BP

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Post by Juha Tompuri » 07 Feb 2008 22:22

BIGpanzer wrote:I don't worry but I watch for your case very carefully :wink: :P
You posted the photos with info from GPW museum without any comments from your side. GPW museum descriptions are incorrect very often, they represents pseudo-patriotic info in my opinion.
As I don't know this case very well I didn't have much to comment, and I didn't find that museum info very "pseudo-patriotic" either.

Regards, Juha

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Post by Steady » 15 Feb 2008 12:20

I believe the book had very much erraneous information. Should have known from the other mistakes it had... in fact, today Internet seems a much more dependable source of information than lot of the rather hastily researched commercial war history by second-tier writers :)

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Re:

Post by uletnah » 03 Apr 2008 20:34

Извините что пишу по русски.
Как человек видевший данный предмет на месте его установки, могу только уточнить, что корпус этого танка (Т-46) использовался как огневая точка для защиты тыла артиллерийского ДОТа на КАУР. В боях 1939 и 1941 г. участия не принимал. Был вытащен в мае 2003 года.
На КАУРе были использованы сотни корпусов танков, для усиления границы, в большинстве своём они достались финам.

Нашёл в темах форума фотографии второго Т-46 сделанные финскими военными. Интересно было бы узнать место съёмки или кто на ней изображён.

PROMT variant of translation. :roll:
As the person seeing given subject on a place of its installation, I can specify only, that the case of this tank (Т-46) was used as a fire point for protection of back of an artillery ДОТ on КАУР. In battles 1939 and 1941 of participation did not accept. Has been pulled out in May, 2003.
On КАУР hundreds cases of tanks, for border strengthening have been used, in the majority they have got suomi.

Has found in themes of a forum of a photo of the second Т-46 made the Finnish military men. It would be interesting to learn a place of shooting or who on it is represented.

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