OOB for Karelian Isthmus June 1944

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nometorres
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Re: OOB for Karelian Isthmus June 1944

Post by nometorres » 07 May 2008 12:07

Raja JP.2
I already had Raja JP 2 as subordinated to 15 ID. was this unit coimparable to another Jäger battalion? A couple of sources qualify this unit as excellent...
JR 61
What Division did this regiment come from? Was it provisionally attached to any other division in the isthmus? When did it arrive and what was its involvement in these battles
Questions regarding the Armored Division
Well, it looks the Soviet-tank-equipped heavy coy was marginally useful. I guess all those T-26 were still less important. So the main (only?) punch of the PD was the Sturmi Bn with just a little help from a handful of Soviet-built tanks.
• Were Separate Battalions equivalent to regimental battalions or did they have different TO&Es?
From what I have understanded the ErP was organized as the regimentel battalions. The ErP was to replace the divisions 3rd regiments as a Division reserv when the Finnsih division changed from 3 to 2 regiments
That's what I thought...
Swedish Vol. coy.
I have a quite detailed detailed account of this coy's history from a book released in Spain about foreign volunteers in the Finnish Army. If I can find some time I'll be glad to translate it into English (at least a short summary) and post it here.

Best

Ernesto

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patrik.possi
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Re: OOB for Karelian Isthmus June 1944

Post by patrik.possi » 08 May 2008 23:49

Actually the list neads the 17th Finnish division

17.D
JR13 (The Swedish vol coy was acting as JR13 Jäger Coy)
JR61
ErP 27
KTR 8

Most personal had swedish as its first language

The units of the Division was split up as they arrived from east karelia. JR61 was Rushed to Tienhaara 1km north of Viipuri, where the unit togeter with KTR8 Rask Psto 14 and 40 Stopped a Soviet crossing of the strait the 22nd of june and halted the Soviet offensiv in that area, this is called the first Finnish repelvictory during the offensive. (My personal view is that the First Finnsih repelvictory was at Siiranmäki when JR7 halted the 23 army. JR13 batalions was splited up and joined other formation temporarlly.

According to T&OE list the Finnish 1944 infantry Division was:

2x Inf Regiment
1 x independent bat
2x gun coy (2x6 AT guns)
1 mortar coy
1 Field art Reg (KTR)
1 Hvy Art Bat
1 AA coy
1 Pioneer bat
1 singnal batalion
1 Gas protection coy

The division had
14500 men
12 AT guns
48 Guns
24 82mm Mortars
12 120mm mortar

And for 1944 Brigade

4x batalions
1 Jäger batalion
1 Light art sec
1 Hvy art sec
1 pioneer coy

7900 men
6 120mm mortars
12 light art guns
12 hvy art guns

Finnsih Airforce at the isthmus 9 june 1944

Lentorykmentti 3
HLeLv 24, 14 MT (Messerschmitt 109G-2)
HLeLv 26, 18 Brewster 239
HLeLv 34, 16 MT Messerschmitt 109-6

Due to low losses and german delivery of ME109G-6s the strength of the airforce did rise

Lentorykmenti 4 Some units where based out side of the Isthmus
PLeLv 42, 17 Blenheims
PLeLv 44, 13 Junkers 88A4
PLeLv 46, 8 Dronnier DO17z, 4 IL DBM-3M, 2 DF
PLeLv 48, 9 Blenheim, 4 Pe-2, 2 IL DBM-3M, 1 DO 17z

LeR 4 was very active and did sevral regiment mission and other sorties at Kuuterselkä and Tali Ihantala, among others.



Other Soviet units

Air force

334th Bomb division Tu-2
113th Bomb division IL-4
276th Bomb Division

277 Ground attackDivision
281 Ground attack Division
2. Leningrad GD fighter corps
275 Figther Division

Army

3 Breaktrough art corps
*5 GD art div
*15 art div
*1 GD Mortar div
4x Heavy art batalions
18 GD How Bde

17th Aslt Pionerr Bde
46 AT Bde

Navy

Orginized into four gruops to support the offensive
1* Railroad art 113-180mm guns
2* Krohnstad Coast artilery+ BB Petropavlovsk +5 Gunboats
3* Naval gun test range(?)
4* BB October revolution CL Kirov CL Maxim Gorki

All i all 175 guns with 90% 120-405mm guns

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tramonte
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Re: OOB for Karelian Isthmus June 1944

Post by tramonte » 09 Mar 2021 19:00

I guess Antitank Battalion of Panzer Divisions had 4 AT-gun companies of which one used German 50 mm guns and rest either Pak 40 (75mm) or Soviet 45 guns. So it might should have had 24 pieces of AT guns.

And when it comes to division and brigade strength it depends how many units they had. Normally Brigade had 4 infantry battalions and 2 artillery battalions. That's why it's full strength was not even near 7,900 men but more likely around 6,700.

Divisions had normally only 7 infantry battalions (since early 1942), artillery regiment and one heavy artillery battalion. Without any extra troops its strength was normally around 13,200-13,300.
"Military history is nothing but a tissue of fictions and legends, only a form of literary invention; reality counts for very little in such affair."

- Gaston de Pawlowski, Dans les rides du front

CyirlSh
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Re: OOB for Karelian Isthmus June 1944

Post by CyirlSh » 04 Jun 2021 09:12

On the other hand, the OOB of the Karelian Army (Kannaksen Ryhmä) in early June 1944.

III Armeijakunta
15.Divisioona
19.Prikaati
Rajajääkäripataljoona 2
Erillinen pataljoona 6
Linnoituspataljoona 3
Linnoituspataljoona 4
Linnoituspataljoona 5
Kevyt patteristo 22
Raskas patteristo 12
Raskas patteristo 13
Ilmatorjuntarykmentti 15
***
IV Armeijakunta
2.Divisioona
10.Divisioona
Heimopataljoona 3
I/Jalkaväkirykmentti 200
Kevyt patteristo 24
Raskas patteristo 17
Raskas patteristo 18
Raskas patteristo 20
Raskas patteristo 25
Raskas patteristo 27
Järeä patteristo 1
Järeä patteristo 4
Rannikkotykistörykmentti 2
Ilmatorjuntarykmentti 12
***
In reserve
Panssaridivisioona
3.Divisioona
18.Divisioona
Ratsuväkiprikaati
Raskas patteristo 16
Raskas patteristo 26
***
Lentorykmentti 3
Lentorykmentti 4
Ilmatorjuntarykmentti 3

Is there something missing?

Mikko H.
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Re: OOB for Karelian Isthmus June 1944

Post by Mikko H. » 11 Jun 2021 20:05

CyirlSh wrote:
04 Jun 2021 09:12
On the other hand, the OOB of the Karelian Army (Kannaksen Ryhmä) in early June 1944.
There was neither Karelian Army or Kannaksen Ryhmä in June 1944.

Karjalan Armeija (Army of Karelia) operated northwest and north of Lake Ladoga from 29 June 1941 to 1 March 1942, when its HQ was deactivated and renamed Olonets Group HQ.

Kannaksen Ryhmä (Isthmus Group) was deactivated in February 1944 and its HQ became the IV Army Corps HQ. In early June 1944 the two army corps in Karelian Isthmus were directly under Marshal Mannerheim's GHQ. On 14 June Lieutenant General Karl Lennart Oesch was appointed Commander of the Isthmus Forces and a small staff, named HQ of the Commander of the Isthmus Forces, was formed to serve under him.

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