Russian tanks in Suomussalmi

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larth
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Russian tanks in Suomussalmi

Post by larth » 23 Sep 2008 01:57

Anyone out there who has a good source on which types of tanks the Russian had in / around Suomossalmi in 39? Siilasvuo just mentions "tanks" in his book and I haven't found any photos from the church village itself, only from the Raate road leading to it. Thanks in advance!

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Re: Russian tanks in Suomossalmi

Post by kansa2 » 23 Sep 2008 12:01

Hi !
Russian 163 rifle division , grasped Suomussalmi , had in a scout battalion light tanks-amphibians T-37/38 and some old armored cars Д-8 and БА-27. The Majority has been lost in fights.
Itself would look the Finnish resource in a net at this theme. :)

Best regards!

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Re: Russian tanks in Suomossalmi

Post by Lotvonen » 23 Sep 2008 12:24

I have seen in my Dad´s album a photo of half-a-dozen captured intact T-26 lined in front of a schoolhouse in Kajaani. The photo must have been taken some time in January to April in 1940

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Re: Russian tanks in Suomossalmi

Post by Mikko H. » 23 Sep 2008 13:22


larth
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Re: Russian tanks in Suomussalmi

Post by larth » 26 Sep 2008 19:25

Thanks a lot! Very good answers.
Apologies, how is Kajaani related to Suomussalmi?

Now a long shot: there were a number of AA-trucks (with quad MG's) captured along the Raate road, did any of the reach Suomussalmi itself?
Last edited by larth on 30 Sep 2008 20:44, edited 1 time in total.

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JTV
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Re: Russian tanks in Suomossalmi

Post by JTV » 29 Sep 2008 20:53

larth wrote:Thanks a lot! Very good answers.
Apologies, how is Kajaani related to Suomossalmi?
First: The place-name is Suomussalmi, not Suomossalmi. Kajaani was and is the closest town of any real size to Suomussalmi. Back in those days (and now) the main road (highway 5, heading south-west) from Suomussalmi went to Kajaani. The only other main road from Suomussalmi would have been towards north-east and later turning towards north - in other words towards Soviet border and to thinly populated + non-industrialised northern Finland. The area around Kajaani had cross-roads with highways continuing to three different directions (north-west, south and south-east). The main Finnish repair facility for armoured vehicles was in Varkaus (354 km from Suomussalmi, located south of it.) In additition railway-crossroads of Kontiomäki was close to Kajaani. Which road would you have taken for transporting captured armoured vehicles from Suomussalmi region? All major Winter War battlefields other than Suomussalmi and Raate road were nowhere near Kajaani and armoured vehicles originating from them would have been very unlikely to end up in Kajaani.

According "Tanks in Winter War" by Maksym Kolomyjec December 1939. Soviet 9th Army had around that area 100th, 79th, 365th, 302nd and 97th Separate Tank Battalions. While equipment is not listed for all them it seems that many if not all of these tank battalions were equipped with T-26 tanks. Page 93 of the book has list of tank losses suffered by Soviet 9th Army in Winter War - it includes 14 T-26 tanks in category "left behind to enemy territory".

Jarkko

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Re: Russian tanks in Suomussalmi

Post by larth » 29 Sep 2008 22:39

Jarkko,

first my apologies for the spelling of Suomussalmi, it is one of a few names I've typed a lot of times, and still it doesn't "stick"... :oops:

Also thank you for the explanation of Kajaani, and its role in connection with Varkaus. I did look up Kajaani on google maps, but did not find any apparent relationship to Suomussalmi.

Regarding the tank btns, the best overview of the units in the 163 RD I have found is the one at http://www.winterwar.com/Battles/Suomus ... m#suomarea page. It has only the 222nd Tank Battalion listed. In the book you mention, the 312th is listed as fighting with the 44th division. The 97th is listed as fighting between Alasjärvi and Saunajärvi, which I believe is southeast of Kuhmo. So those seem improbable for being in Suomussalmi. But it also states that a tank of the 79th btn hit a mine in the Juntusranta area so it may have continued on to Suomussalmi.

The same table which lists the T-26's as left behind, also lists 16 T-37/38's as left in enemy territory, so that fits with the info in kansa2's post above. This seems like the best bet for which type of tanks that may have taken part of the fighting in the Suomussalmi village itself.

Again thank you for your help!

best regards,
Lars

P.S. I would appreciate if the moderator could correct the spelling of the title of this thread.


-----------------------------------------
Done
/Juha

larth
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Re: Russian tanks in Suomussalmi

Post by larth » 01 Oct 2008 17:27

Thanks Juha.

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Re: Russian tanks in Suomussalmi

Post by Slon-76 » 14 Sep 2009 12:40

larth wrote:Anyone out there who has a good source on which types of tanks the Russian had in / around Suomossalmi in 39? Siilasvuo just mentions "tanks" in his book and I haven't found any photos from the church village itself, only from the Raate road leading to it. Thanks in advance!
Soviet tanks in Suomussalmi:

Armored company of 177-th recon battalion of 163-rd division (14 T-37, 3 BA-27, 2 D-8)
from the beginning of war. All are put out of action and thrown during the period from 30.11- 27.12

Tank platoon of 22-nd battalion of protection of a staff of 9 armies (6 T-26 + 2 T-26 the tractor) were in Ukhta and in Juntusranta. Two tanks were used at attempt to deblock 662-nd shelfs 26-27.12.39

79-th separate tank battalion (48 T-37 + 6 T-38)
Has arrived 22.12.39.It is subordinated 47-TH corps. One company (13 tanks) on the night of 28th December has arrived in Suomussalmi and covered a withdrawal of 163-rd division

365-th separate tank battalion (50 T-38 + 4 T-37)
Has arrived 22.12.39. It is subordinated 47-TH corps. Has arrived in Juntusranta already after care 163-rd division from Suomussalmi..

Armored company of 4-th recon battalion of 44-rd division (10 armored cars)
In fights on road Raate from the end of December. 9 machines are lost

312-th separate tank battalion (22 T-37 + 15 T-26)
In fights on road Raate since December, 17. At an output from an environment all techniques is thrown. Remained 3 T-26 and 3 T-37.

61-th separate signal battalion 44-th division (2 armored car)
The destiny is unknown

25-th, 146-th, 305-th rifle regiments 44-th division - On six T-27 (not T-37) in everyone
The destiny is unknown

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Re: Russian tanks in Suomussalmi

Post by larth » 15 Sep 2009 00:19

Many thanks Slon-76!

That was a very detailed overview. Where did you find this? Also the first hint I've seen on where the T-27 was being used. Mentioning of T-26 tractor is also rare. Very interesting.

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Re: Russian tanks in Suomussalmi

Post by Slon-76 » 15 Sep 2009 16:14

larth wrote:Where did you find this?
RGVA
larth wrote:Also the first hint I've seen on where the T-27 was being used. Mentioning of T-26 tractor is also rare. Very interesting.
T-27, probably, at the front have not got, though were available.
Tractors T-26 were used on a site of road from Juntusranta up to Palovaara. Helped movement of transport.

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Slon-76
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Re: Russian tanks in Suomussalmi

Post by Slon-76 » 15 Sep 2009 22:26

larth wrote: Now a long shot: there were a number of AA-trucks (with quad MG's) captured along the Raate road, did any of the reach Suomussalmi itself?
In 163-rd division antiaircraft platoons were in structure 662, 759 rifle regiments and 365 artillery regiment. Everyone had on three installations. Precisely in hands финов machine guns 662-nd regiment have got.
The others have been removed at deviation from Suomussalmi.

Antiaircraft guns at a division WAS NOT.

44-n the division as of December, 7 had 21 antiaircraft machine-gun system. On three machine guns there was in 25-th, 146-th and 305-th rifle regiments, 122-nd artillery regiment and 179-nd howitzer regiment in everyone (total 15). Six machine-gun installations was in 66-th separate antiaircraft machine-gun company.
66-n the АА-company was at a staff of a division in Vazhenvara. A АА-platoon 179-th HR - too. The others (total 12) have got to Finns.
In total Finns have grasped 14 four barrels antiaircraft machine gun. Antiaircraft guns - 0.

Antiaircraft guns were only in structure of 62-nd AA-artillery battalion (three batteries on 4x76-mm of AA guns in everyone + AA machine-gun company 6x4x7,62). But it all time was in Ukhta.

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