Finnish Artillery

[JTV]

Hi all,

I found this image on Ebay. According to photocaption it is a finnish coastal gun. Can anybody identify it?

152-mm Canet L/45 naval/coastal gun - also called as "152/45" by Finnish coastal artillery. They had been captured in 1918 (during World War 1 Russia had build rather extensive coastal artillery fort system to Finnish coast) and were most common heavy coastal gun in Finnish use during World War 2. The gun in the photo is with Finnish improvements, most important of which were:
- Getting rid of the original Russian loading tray system. The shells weight about 45-kg, but were notably faster to load by hand.
- Reversing the guns to their gun mounts - turning them basically upside down, since the recoil springs were originally below barrel and limited maximum elevation (-> reducing maximum range considerably).

Some photos of 152-mm Canet L/45:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ ... _naval_gun

Jarkko

[Sturm78]

Thank you very much for your answer, Jarkko.

Regards Sturm78

[larth]

Another way was using field guns in a direct fire role (suorasuuntaustuli) in similar manner as anti-tank guns, as mentioned this would have been much more rare and since field guns were not commonly exactly ideal for this role, the success rate was often not so spectacular. In addition to these two, book Kollaa kestää by E. Palolampi mentions repeatedly using field guns for destroing tanks with tikkaus-ammunta method (indirect fire with one gun/howitzer, fire observer seeing the target corrected fire after each shell).

Would you know which types of guns were used at Kollaa? In addition to the above account of indirect firing, there was in the description of the defenses at Kollaanjärvi listed one gun to the north of the road and one to the south of the road. Reading that (in Swedish) gave the impression of it being AT guns used in direct fire role.

Lars

[JTV]

Would you know which types of guns were used at Kollaa? In addition to the above account of indirect firing, there was in the description of the defenses at Kollaanjärvi listed one gun to the north of the road and one to the south of the road. Reading that (in Swedish) gave the impression of it being AT guns used in direct fire role.

What artillery was available in Kollaa somewhat varied depending time.
- Early on only 1st Battalion/Field Artillery Regiment 12 (12 x 76 LK/13 infantry gun)
- Starting 19th of December also two batteries of 3rd Battalion/Field Artillery Regiment 12 (8 x 76 LK/13 infantry gun), 6th Battery/Field Artillery Regiment 13 (either 4 x 76 K/02 or 4 x 76 K/36 field gun) and Armoured Train 1 (2 x 76 VK/04 mountain gun).

After first Soviet attacks (of 56th Division) in Kollaa were repulsed by 18th of December, Finnish units in Kollaa were re-organised the first time. This meant also changes in artillery - 1st and 3rd Battalions of Field Artillery Regiment 12 and 6th Battery/Field Artillery Regiment 13 were transferred elsewhere. New artillery support after this was 2nd Battalion/Field Artillery Regiment 12 (8 x 76 LK/13 infantry gun), 7th Battery/Field Artillery Regiment 13 (presumably 4 x 76 K/02 field gun) and Armoured Train 1.

Second Soviet division (164th Division) arrived to Kollaa in mid January, the Soviets re-started their attacks but were again repulsed. After this Finnish units in Kollaa were reorganised and regrouped the second time. 8th of February Finnish artillery support included:
- 1st Battalion/Field Artillery Regiment 12 (12 x 76 LK/13)
- 7th Battery/Field Artillery Regiment 12 (4 x 76 LK/13)
- 9th Battery/Field Artillery Regiment 12 (4 x 76 LK/13)
- 1st Battery/Field Artillery Regiment 13 (presumably 4 x 76 K/00 field gun)
- 5th Battery/Field Artillery Regiment 13 (4 x 76 LK/13)

In early March the Soviets brought third division (75th Division) to Kollaa and parts of fourth Division (24th Motorised Cavalry Division). 1st and 3rd Battalions/Field Artillery Regiment 12 continued to serve as Finnish artillery support. 7th of March 1st Battalion/Field Artillery Regiment 12 received additional guns - 2 x 90 K/77 old field gun. Armoured Train 1 was off getting repaired from 19th of February to 9th of March, it has also had serious problems getting close enough to frontline to use its mountain guns since January.

I have indeed previously heard about tikkausammunta-type method being used in Kollaa. Maybe the best book about battles in there is the classic "Kollaa Kestää" (Kollaa Will Hold) By Erkki Palolampi, quote:
"After the FO-team leader 2nd Lieutenant Reini had been wounded, Junior Sergeant Anttonen, who had earlier served in infantry, started remarkable shooting, which anybody would have called madness. He calmly selected the nearest tank as target and started calling in artillery fire - for purpose of saving ammunition - only one shot at the time with only one gun. Nothing could agitate this calm man, after few shots he scores a direct hit, the tank stops and it starts to smoke...".

Jarkko

[larth]

Thank you again Jarkko!

I have indeed previously heard about tikkausammunta-type method being used in Kollaa. Maybe the best book about battles in there is the classic "Kollaa Kestää" (Kollaa Will Hold) By Erkki Palolampi, quote:
"After the FO-team leader 2nd Lieutenant Reini had been wounded, Junior Sergeant Anttonen, who had earlier served in infantry, started remarkable shooting, which anybody would have called madness. He calmly selected the nearest tank as target and started calling in artillery fire - for purpose of saving ammunition - only one shot at the time with only one gun. Nothing could agitate this calm man, after few shots he scores a direct hit, the tank stops and it starts to smoke...".

Having just finished that book, I agree. The descriptions are overwhelming, like the above. The disappointment over the "help" in the form of the 90 K/77's is very eloquent, presumably those are meant by "the awaited French three and half inch guns" with a good account of its use. Next one up is Heiskanen, Jorma: Som fältpräst vid Kollaa (As a Fieldpriest at Kollaa) (1942) which has some interesting photos.

I wonder about the text about the 10th of December (page 90+ in the Swedish version), there the text mentions that there is one anti-tank gun ("pansarvärnskanon") immediately to the north of the road and another to the south of it. From the list above it could the 76 LK/13 as it was easy to manhandle and often used in direct fire? Not normally an AT gun.

Lars

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

An image from Ebay: 1940

Regards Sturm78

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

I found this image on Ebay. I think 76.2mm M1902 ex-Russian guns (76 K/02)

Regards Sturm78

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Three images from Ebay. There are not many wartime images of Finnish artillery pieces

Image 1: 75 PstK/40
Image 2: 150 H/40
Image 3: 37 PstK/36

Regards Sturm78

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

Can somebody identify this coastal gun? According to photocaption Finnish gun

Image from Ebay
Sturm78

[Juha Tompuri]

203/45 Canet or 203/50 Vickers, can't say for sure.

Regards, Juha

[JTV]

203/45 Canet or 203/50 Vickers, can't say for sure.

I checked what "Itsenäisen Suomen rannikkotykit 1918 - 1998" (Coastal Guns in Finland 1918 - 1998) by Ove Enqvist and Suomen linnoittamisen historia 1918 - 1944 (History of fortifying Finland 1918 - 1944) by R. Arimo have to say. Most likely it is 203/45 Canet (203-mm Canet coastal gun with L/45 barrel), but it could also be 203/50 Vickers. These guns were very rare in Finnish use. Apparently only three 203/45 Canet and one 203/45 were captured in 1918 and these four guns were the only 203-mm coastal guns in Finnish use. The soldiers in these two photos are wearing Finnish uniforms M/22 (as model of year 1922) and version of sailor hat used by coastal artillery (sailors had white hats, coastal artillery had grey) early on. Hence the photos are quite certain from 1920's. Only Finnish coastal fort using 203-mm guns in 1920's was Pukkio Fort, which was build in 1921 - 1924 got two 203/45 Canet guns in year 1924. This battery was build for four 8-inch guns from the start and later it received another two 203-mm guns (one Canet and one Vickers), bringing total number of its guns to four. One 203/45 Canet and one 203/50 Vickers were transferred from Pukkio to Mäkiluoto Fort in year 1933. Since the two guns transferred to Mäkiluoto had also been equipped with completely different more modern gun mounts before transfer, these photos must be from Pukkio.

Jarkko

[ML]

I would also suggest the photos are from Pukkio in 1920's for same reasons JTV already mentioned.

In pictures the recoil springs are under the barrel. Can't remember were the 8 inch Canets also "inverted" in 1930's like the 6 inch Canets. If someone has Enqvist's book at hand, this should be mentioned in it. I will check the book later if necessary.

In Winter war (February/March 1940) 203 mm battery of Pukkio was heavily involved in repelling Soviet iceborne landing attempts to Kotka - Hamina Coast. On 5th of March one of the two guns was damaged (cracked inner barrel). That night first shot of 2nd gun was fired with full charge without preceeding "warming shot" with half charge. This together with severe cold weather cracked the barrel. Warming shot would have alerted Soviets landed in Kiuskeri island group and order to use full charge was given to achieve suprise effect. Gun crew and fort commander were against this, but their superiors demanded the order to be fulfilled.

[ernesto73]

near Collie, we found the charges from the Finnish 122-mm mortars.

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

I found this image on Ebay. I think captured 152mm M1938 soviet howitzers. 152 H/38

Sturm78

[JTV]

Hi all,
I found this image on Ebay. I think captured 152mm M1938 soviet howitzers. 152 H/38

Correct, they are 152 H/38 howitzers.

Jarkko