RTR 4

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eugenek13
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RTR 4

Post by eugenek13 » 05 Sep 2009 18:22

The information interest about battery of this regiment.What numbers were at these batteries?Who had maps,foto,schemes of batteries in Soksu(Shoksa),Soutjarvi(Sheltosero),Ruoppaoja(Ribreka),Toisjoki(Telaoro),Kallio,Väliniemi,Kulikka?
In general any informatio on coastal defens against Petroskoi up to Vosnesenje interest.(This site--geocities.com/finmilpage--I already looked).

Mangrove
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Re: RTR 4

Post by Mangrove » 06 Sep 2009 14:37

eugenek13 wrote:The information interest about battery of this regiment.What numbers were at these batteries?
Could you please specify time frame for the information?

eugenek13
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Re: RTR 4

Post by eugenek13 » 06 Sep 2009 16:02

1944

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JTV
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Re: RTR 4

Post by JTV » 06 Sep 2009 19:34

eugenek13 wrote:1944
Book Äänisen rannoilla (In Shores of Lake Ääninen/Onega) Lappalainen lists guns of the coastal batteries in Ääninen/Onega in page 90. Suomen linnoittamisen historia 1918 - 1944 (History of Fortifying Finland 1918 - 1944) by R. Arimo gives another more detailed list of guns in 24th of January 1944 in its page 358.

This list is composite of the two:
- Soksu: 2 x 152-mm (152-mm Canet L/35 coastal gun with CR mount) + 4 x 122-mm (122 K/31) and 4 x 47-mm (47-mm Obuhov L/40 coastal gun)
- Soutjärvi: 4 x 122-mm (according Lappalainen) / 4 x 75-mm (75 K/17 field gun) (according Arimo)
- Ruoppaoja: 4 x 122-mm (122 K/31 field guns, 4th Motorised Heavy Coastal Artillery Battery)
- Toisjoki: 4 x 76-mm (76 K/36 field guns)
- Kallio: 4 x 75-mm (Arimo has no Kallio listed, but his list contains "Steleki" battery with 4 x 75 K/17 field guns in its place)
- Väliniemi: 3 x 152-mm (152-mm Canet L/45 coastal guns, 41th Heavy Coastal Artillery Battery)
- Kulikova (could be Kulikka you listed?): 4 x 75-mm (75 K/17 field guns)

From these batteries Arimo lists as motorised: Toisjoki, Ruoppaoja and 122-mm battery in Soksu.

If you are asking about coastal batteries south from Äänislinna/Petroskoi? If so, you might have missed Derevjannoje/Tervasoja battery (3 x 75-mm Obuhov L/50 coastal gun) just south-east of the city before Soksu.

Jarkko

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Re: RTR 4

Post by eugenek13 » 06 Sep 2009 20:40

Thanks you JTV!!!

--- Väliniemi: 3 x 152-mm (152-mm Canet L/45 coastal guns, 41th Heavy Coastal Artillery Battery):When I was in this battery I saw only 2 position for 152/45-C,from them one position destruction(explosive)...
-Ruoppaoja: 4 x 122-mm (122 K/31 field guns, 4th Motorised Heavy Coastal Artillery Battery)
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eugenek13
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Re: RTR 4

Post by eugenek13 » 06 Sep 2009 20:47

This foto stationary battery(4 guns) in Ruoppaoja(not 4 x122 K/31 field guns, 4th Motorised Heavy Coastal Artillery Battery)

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JTV
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Re: RTR 4

Post by JTV » 06 Sep 2009 21:12

Few additional details and thoughts:

- Ruoppajoki battery: Lappalainen's book has a photo showing one gun of this battery. It is what Finnish Army would call "field fortified" - octagon-shaped gun position is a hole in the ground with log walls to provide structucal support and a ramp in one side.
- Kulikova battery: Two photos of its area. One of them shows a machinegun nest (log frame completely on ground) and another shows a large structure of irregular shape (gun positition and connecting trench?) also build from logs and completely on ground.

If you are looking concrete structures, the 152-mm Canet batteries most likely had them. The field guns didn't really need them and gun mounts of the lighter coastal guns like the 47-mm and 75-mm mentioned previously could be bolted on log frames.

BTW: I find that artillery position in photo is bit surprising. Finnish coastal artillery had for 152-mm Canet also a much better gun position design, which had been build to Salpa-line in 1940 - 1941. That design, which in my best guess is further development from Kaarnajoki and Satamaniemi batteries build in late 30's had the gun completely under ground with ammunition storages and crew quarters build as part of the same structure around and under the gun pit. That one looks like the earlier Finnish coastal battery designs.

Jarkko

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Re: RTR 4

Post by eugenek13 » 07 Sep 2009 14:13

Battery in Ruoopaoja(in foto) had 4-75mm or 102mm(no more).Can by it is anti-aircraft battery?
"Lappalainen's book has a photo showing one gun of this battery"---Jarkko do you show this foto?Do you know a site of this battery(where exactly)?

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Harri
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Re: RTR 4

Post by Harri » 07 Sep 2009 14:43

I think the differences in weaponry reflect the date. This is the OOB of RTR 4 for 1944:


Rannikkotykistörykmentti 4, RTR 4 Ruoppaoja Lt.Col. V. Valtanen
(Coastal Artillery Regiment 4)

Esikuntakomppania (EK/RTR 4) (HQ Company) Ruoppaoja

11. Rannikkoilmatorjuntakonekiväärikomppania (11.RIt.KKK)
(11th Coastal Anti-Aircraft MG Company)

IV Linnakkeisto (IV/RTR 4) Lukkosaari Maj. L.Paaso
(IV Coastal Artillery Battalion)

42. Raskas rannikkopatteri (42.Rask.Rt.Ptri) Lukkosaari
(42nd Heavy Coastal Battery) [3 - 152/45 C]

404. Kevyt rannikkopatteri (404.Kev.Rt.Ptri) Tervasoja
(404th Light Coastal Battery)
[2 - 75/50 C] Puujoki (Tervasoja)
[1 - 75/50 C] Golomansaari

III Linnakkeisto (III/RTR 4) Soksu Capt. B. Kytöpuro
(III Coastal Artillery Battalion)

8. Moottoroitu raskas patteri (8.Mt.Rask.Ptri) Soksu
(8th Motorized Heavy Battery) [2 - 152 H/37]

36. Torjuntakomppania (36.TK)
(36th Coastal Defence Company) Petäjäselkä

II Linnakkeisto (II/RTR 4) Soutjärvi Capt. E. Häyrinen
(II Coastal Artillery Battalion)

4. Moottoroitu raskas patteri (4.Mt.Rask.Ptri) Ruoppaoja
(4th Motorized Heavy Battery) [4 - 122 K/31]

I Jaos / 5. Moottoroitu kevyt patteri (I/5.Mt.Kev.Ptri) Toinenjoki
(I Section / 5th Motorized Light Battery) [2 - 76 K/36]

One heavy battery of 4 - 122 was suspended in spring 1944 at Soutjärvi.

403. Kevyt kenttäpatteri (403.Kev.KPtri) Soutjärvi
(403rd Light Field Battery) [4 - 75 K/17]
Formed in spring 1944.

Erillinen jaos (Er.Js) Kaskesoja
(Separate Section) [2 - 76 LK/13].

I Linnakkeisto (I/RTR 4) Väliniemi Maj. T. Knuuttila
(I Coastal Artillery Battalion)
Operatively subordinated to 7th Division (7.D).

II Jaos / 5. Moottoroitu kevyt patteri (II/5.Mt.Kev.Ptri) Kulikova
(II Section / 5th Motorized Light Battery) [2 - 76 K/36]

401. Kevyt kenttäpatteri (401.Kev.KPtri) Kulikova (Kulikka)
(401st Light Field Battery) [4 - 75 K/17]

402. Kevyt kenttäpatteri (402.Kev.KPtri) Kallio
(402nd Light Field Battery) [4 - 75 K/17]

31. Torjuntakomppania (31.TK) Kulikova
(31st Coastal Defence Company)

32. Torjuntakomppania (32.TK) Väliniemi
(32nd Coastal Defence Company)

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Harri
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Re: RTR 4

Post by Harri » 07 Sep 2009 15:07

I think also some of the reinforced concrete positions may be for the heavy range finders, not just for guns. Actually RTR 4 had relatively few coastal guns. Normal field guns were much more common, but some of the gun models were although long-range pieces. Also Coastal Defence Companies had guns: typically two captured Soviet 45 mm AT guns, some units may have had other pieces or more guns.

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Re: RTR 4

Post by eugenek13 » 07 Sep 2009 15:18

Thanks you Harry!!!Very,very good information!!!

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JTV
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Re: RTR 4

Post by JTV » 07 Sep 2009 15:39

Harri wrote:I think the differences in weaponry reflect the date. This is the OOB of RTR 4 for 1944:
The list in Lappalainen's book is from "early 1944" (no exact date or even month given) and as mentioned Arimo's list is from 24th of January 1944.

Jarkko

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JTV
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Re: RTR 4

Post by JTV » 07 Sep 2009 16:28

eugenek13 wrote:Battery in Ruoopaoja(in foto) had 4-75mm or 102mm(no more).Can by it is anti-aircraft battery?
"Lappalainen's book has a photo showing one gun of this battery"---Jarkko do you show this foto?Do you know a site of this battery(where exactly)?
Ruoppaoja Battery had four 122 K/31 field guns - one of which is in that particular photo. I also don't have scanner at the moment. The photo doesn't show much of the terrain around the gun, but it appears that the gun position is notably higher than the terrain on the background (likely on a hill?). Also, I checked the books I have, it seems that none have detailed maps (typical map shows the whole lake and about where the coastal batteries were).

I assume your colour photo is from Väliniemi battery?

Only real 75-mm coastal gun in Finnish inventory was 75-mm Canet with L/45 barrel. It was quite common (one source gives total number as 66 guns during late Continuation War) and as typical with coastal guns had been captured in 1918. There were quite a variety of gun mount models used with 75-mm Canet, with some of which it could be as an anti-aircraft gun as well (they provided enough elevation), but these mounts were rare.

Only 102-mm in Finnish inventory was (again 1918 captured) 102-mm Obuhov coastal gun with L/60 barrel. It was rare in Finnish use - only six guns used during Continuation War (1941 - 1944) and four of those on gunboats Uusimaa and Hämeenmaa. The other two guns were used by coastal artillery, but I could not find where.

Jarkko

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Re: RTR 4

Post by eugenek13 » 13 Sep 2009 22:48

JTV wrote
''The photo doesn't show much of the terrain around the gun, but it appears that the gun position is notably higher than the terrain on the background (likely on a hill?)''-----Battery in foto to be in mounting hill(145,4m)...
''I assume your colour photo is from Väliniemi battery?''----No i did't have a colour photo this battery.I plan to go there in october-november......Photos I promise to publish

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Re: RTR 4

Post by Erkki Marttila » 07 Nov 2009 19:52

Harri wrote:I think the differences in weaponry reflect the date. This is the OOB of RTR 4 for 1944:


Rannikkotykistörykmentti 4, RTR 4 Ruoppaoja Lt.Col. V. Valtanen
(Coastal Artillery Regiment 4)

Esikuntakomppania (EK/RTR 4) (HQ Company) Ruoppaoja

11. Rannikkoilmatorjuntakonekiväärikomppania (11.RIt.KKK)
(11th Coastal Anti-Aircraft MG Company)

IV Linnakkeisto (IV/RTR 4) Lukkosaari Maj. L.Paaso
(IV Coastal Artillery Battalion)

42. Raskas rannikkopatteri (42.Rask.Rt.Ptri) Lukkosaari
(42nd Heavy Coastal Battery) [3 - 152/45 C]

404. Kevyt rannikkopatteri (404.Kev.Rt.Ptri) Tervasoja
(404th Light Coastal Battery)
[2 - 75/50 C] Puujoki (Tervasoja)
[1 - 75/50 C] Golomansaari

III Linnakkeisto (III/RTR 4) Soksu Capt. B. Kytöpuro
(III Coastal Artillery Battalion)

8. Moottoroitu raskas patteri (8.Mt.Rask.Ptri) Soksu
(8th Motorized Heavy Battery) [2 - 152 H/37]

36. Torjuntakomppania (36.TK)
(36th Coastal Defence Company) Petäjäselkä

II Linnakkeisto (II/RTR 4) Soutjärvi Capt. E. Häyrinen
(II Coastal Artillery Battalion)

4. Moottoroitu raskas patteri (4.Mt.Rask.Ptri) Ruoppaoja
(4th Motorized Heavy Battery) [4 - 122 K/31]

I Jaos / 5. Moottoroitu kevyt patteri (I/5.Mt.Kev.Ptri) Toinenjoki
(I Section / 5th Motorized Light Battery) [2 - 76 K/36]

One heavy battery of 4 - 122 was suspended in spring 1944 at Soutjärvi.

403. Kevyt kenttäpatteri (403.Kev.KPtri) Soutjärvi
(403rd Light Field Battery) [4 - 75 K/17]
Formed in spring 1944.

Erillinen jaos (Er.Js) Kaskesoja
(Separate Section) [2 - 76 LK/13].

I Linnakkeisto (I/RTR 4) Väliniemi Maj. T. Knuuttila
(I Coastal Artillery Battalion)
Operatively subordinated to 7th Division (7.D).

II Jaos / 5. Moottoroitu kevyt patteri (II/5.Mt.Kev.Ptri) Kulikova
(II Section / 5th Motorized Light Battery) [2 - 76 K/36]

401. Kevyt kenttäpatteri (401.Kev.KPtri) Kulikova (Kulikka)
(401st Light Field Battery) [4 - 75 K/17]

402. Kevyt kenttäpatteri (402.Kev.KPtri) Kallio
(402nd Light Field Battery) [4 - 75 K/17]

31. Torjuntakomppania (31.TK) Kulikova
(31st Coastal Defence Company)

32. Torjuntakomppania (32.TK) Väliniemi
(32nd Coastal Defence Company)
I think Your list is very good. In this picture is about the same information

Image

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