RTR 4
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Re: RTR 4
Another trench from the other side was used to get inside the gunpit:
Both entrances to the casemates running around the gunpit are sealed. I think it's better not to try to get inside, keeping in mind the experiments that were carried out on the island in the first half of the 1950-ies.
Both entrances to the casemates running around the gunpit are sealed. I think it's better not to try to get inside, keeping in mind the experiments that were carried out on the island in the first half of the 1950-ies.
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Re: RTR 4
Gunpit view from inside. Walls are quite heavily damaged, but no doorways or window openings are visible. The gunpit looks quite small also from inside. As about gun basement, it was not visible, and something told us it would be better not to stay there for too long searching for studs with pinpointer or so.
It looks that's all the pictures from Heinäsenmaa I may share. Surely I would appreciate your comments.
Hope to visit some other places still this year.
It looks that's all the pictures from Heinäsenmaa I may share. Surely I would appreciate your comments.
Hope to visit some other places still this year.
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Re: RTR 4
"Va" stands for voima-asema, power station. Valonheitinasema would be "vh.as".
War diary of 2. Erillinen linnoitusrakennuskomppania:
"21 August 1943. 5.00 a.m. The preparatory work for pouring Heinäsenmaa's I cannon began and at 8.00 a.m the actual pouring began and ended on 22 August 1943 at 1.00 a.m. A total of 64 m3 was poured. The casting was done with one mixer, which slowed down the pouring considerably, but two mixers could not be used, because another motor was still needed to pull up the gravel and the aggregate. [...]"
"7 September 1943. The concrete base of Heinäsenmaa I cannon was cast."
"28 September 1943. [...] 6.00 a.m. Dugout pouring began at "Heinä". The work was led by foremen Johansson and Rinne. Work force consisted of 36 conscripts + 12 reservists. During the first shift, 78.7 m3 were poured and 630 bags of cement were used. Pouring was hampered by bad machine belts, which often broke. 6.00 p.m. The first shift ended and the second shift began. The shift was led by Lieutenant Vapaatalo and foreman Roselius. During the second shift, 55.7 m3 were poured, for which 446 bags of cement were used. Work strength 53 obligated workers. Lighting: spotlight and 5 Petromax."
"29 September 1943. 6.00 a.m. The second shift ended and the third shift began. The pouring was led by Johansson and Rinne. Work strength: 36 obligated workers + 12 reservists. 33.5 m3 was poured, 268 bags of cement. 11:30 a.m. The concrete pouring of the dugout was finished. [...]"
"7 October 1943. [...] 6.00 a.m. The pouring of the Heinäsenmaa's II cannon position began. Work force 47 men. During pouring, 65 m3 were poured, for which 584 bags of cement were used. 6.00 p.m. Pouring ended. Pouring rate approx. 5.3 m3/h. [...]"
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List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 25 and 26 October 1943: "The gun pit of the 2nd cannon of Heinäsenmaa was poured. The installation of drainage piping was started."
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 29 and 30 October 1943: "Osasto 4 has started attaching the protective cover of Heinäsenmaa's rangefinder."
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"2 October [Sic! Should be November] 1943. [...] 1.00 p.m [...] On the roof of the Heinäsenmaa's dugout, approximately 100 m of protective stone covering was poured, as well as protective concrete[?] on the roof of the ammunition dugout."
"6 November 1943. [...] The ring for the protective dome of the Heinäsenmaa's coastal artillery measuring tower was poured. [...]"
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List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 8 and 9 November 1943: "Heinäsenmaa's [gun] crew dugout interior work has started."
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 18 and 19 November 1943: "33. Raskas Patteri (Heinäsenmaa) completed practice shooting on 18 November (12 rounds with 152/45-C cannons).
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 19 and 20 November 1943: "In RTR 3, the excavation work of the 47/40-OL gun position has been completed in Heinäsenmaa."
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 25 and 26 November 1943: "RTR 3 has Heinäsenmaa's first 47/40-OL cannon in a new position. [...] Os.4/Laatokan Rannikkoprikaatin Esikunta has poured the reinforced concrete for the reinforcement of the lower part of the Heinäsenmaa's measuring tower."
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 30 November and 1 December 1943: "Os.4/Laatokan Rannikkoprikaatin Esikunta has completed the interior work of the Heinäsenmaa [gun] crew dugout, except for the ventilation and heating equipment."
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 2 and 3 December 1943: "In the lower part of the Heinäsenmaa measuring tower, the casting of aggregate concrete is underway."
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 7 and 8 December 1943: "In RTR 3, the entryway of Heinäsenmaa's second 152/45-CR cannon with a machine gun emplacement has been completed."
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 12 and 13 January 1944: "Heinäsenmaa fort's 152/45-C battery position, forward observation tower and [gun] crew dugout works were completed on 18 December 1943, except for the installation of heating and ventilation equipment in the dugout and the protective stone covering of the lower part of the measuring tower."
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 21 and 22 January 1944: "At Heinäsenmaa, the laying of bricks of the measuring tower's chimney and the installation of electrical cables to the [gun] crew dugout and gun emplacements have started."
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 4 and 5 February 1944: "In RTR 3 at Heinäsenmaa, the excavation of the new cannon position has started, as well as the installation of the radiators for the measuring tower."
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 20 and 21 February 1944: "At the construction site of Os.4/Laatokan Rannikkoprikaatin Esikunta at Heinäsenmaa, the sewer of the Canet position has been excavated and the excavation of the actual position has started."
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 23 and 24 February 1944: "Os.4/Laatokan Rannikkoprikaatin Esikunta has started the excavation of the Rautaveräjä 152/45-C position, the heating and ventilation works of the Heinäsenmaa [gun] crew shelter [...]"
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Re: RTR 4
But could power station and searchlight station be combined in one building? Otherwise how to explain that "rail line" marked on the map? I thought it was a real rail line to move the searchlight from station/shelter to operating position.
Do I understand it right, that the above is description of conversion of initial hexagonal gunpits open from rear side into present circular ones with overhang?
I wonder how that protective dome might look like? Never heard of such domes and never saw any picture of them.Mangrove wrote: ↑30 Sep 2023 10:04List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 29 and 30 October 1943: "Osasto 4 has started attaching the protective cover of Heinäsenmaa's rangefinder."
[...]
"6 November 1943. [...] The ring for the protective dome of the Heinäsenmaa's coastal artillery measuring tower was poured. [...]"
Perhaps it was the same destroyed building on the right flank of the battery from which I began my story. The only strange thing is that there were no communication passages connecting this shelter with the battery. But it could also be a casemate for some other purpose.Mangrove wrote: ↑30 Sep 2023 10:04List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 8 and 9 November 1943: "Heinäsenmaa's [gun] crew dugout interior work has started."
Is it possible to determine where these gun positions were located? In the same place as the original ones, built with logs and gravel?Mangrove wrote: ↑30 Sep 2023 10:04List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 19 and 20 November 1943: "In RTR 3, the excavation work of the 47/40-OL gun position has been completed in Heinäsenmaa."
Aha, now it’s clear that the new position was also being built for the 6 dm Canet gun - thank you very much for the information.Mangrove wrote: ↑30 Sep 2023 10:04
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 20 and 21 February 1944: "At the construction site of Os.4/Laatokan Rannikkoprikaatin Esikunta at Heinäsenmaa, the sewer of the Canet position has been excavated and the excavation of the actual position has started."
List of fortification works at Heinäsenmaa between 23 and 24 February 1944: "Os.4/Laatokan Rannikkoprikaatin Esikunta has started the excavation of the Rautaveräjä 152/45-C position, the heating and ventilation works of the Heinäsenmaa [gun] crew shelter [...]"
I wonder why the positions for the third Canet gun were never completed on both Rautaveräjä and Heinäsenmaa?
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Re: RTR 4
According to a 1943 work order for Heinäsenmaa, searchlight generator room and generator dugout used two seperate drawings, No. 182 and 127 by Osasto 4 / Laatokan Rannikkoprikaati.
Here's a clip from a rather faded blueprint drawn by Merivoimien Esikunnan Linnoitusosasto ("Fortification Department of the HQ of the Navy") on 7 June 1943 for the first cannon at Heinäsenmaa (original at the National Archives of Finland, folder T-7737/2). All measurements are in centimetres, I believe. I have enhanced the lines a bit:
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Re: RTR 4
Dear Mangrove,
Hi! Have you conducted any visits or research on the Kekinniemi (Kekkineim) Gun Fort? I am trying to learn about any observation towers and MG Cupolas. Is an observation tower the same as a MG Cupola? By the way, which is the correct spelling for this gun fort, please?
All the best!
Robert
Hi! Have you conducted any visits or research on the Kekinniemi (Kekkineim) Gun Fort? I am trying to learn about any observation towers and MG Cupolas. Is an observation tower the same as a MG Cupola? By the way, which is the correct spelling for this gun fort, please?
All the best!
Robert
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Re: RTR 4
The fort is being referred as Kekinniemen (sulku)linnake ("Kekinniemi Fort" or "Kekinniemi Casemate") or Keljan linnake ("Kelja Fort", after the village) in the literature. There are a few articles and unpublished manuscripts about the fortification at the digital archives of Kansa Taisteli magazine. You can translate the Finnish text into English using e.g. Google Translate.Robert M Hammond wrote: ↑06 Oct 2023 00:56I am trying to learn about any observation towers and MG Cupolas. Is an observation tower the same as a MG Cupola? By the way, which is the correct spelling for this gun fort, please?
- Kauko Hämäläinen - Joulu Kekinniemen sulkulinnakkeella v. 1939 (1970).
- Toivo Ahjopalo - Kekinniemen sulkulinnake talvisodassa (Part 1, 1978), Toivo Ahjopalo - Kekinniemen sulkulinnake talvisodassa (Part 2, 1978) and unredacted manuscript Toivo Ahjopalo - Kekinniemen sulkulinnakkeen osuudesta talvisodassa (1975)
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Re: RTR 4
Dear Mangrove,Mangrove wrote: ↑06 Oct 2023 10:30The fort is being referred as Kekinniemen (sulku)linnake ("Kekinniemi Fort" or "Kekinniemi Casemate") or Keljan linnake ("Kelja Fort", after the village) in the literature. There are a few articles and unpublished manuscripts about the fortification at the digital archives of Kansa Taisteli magazine. You can translate the Finnish text into English using e.g. Google Translate.Robert M Hammond wrote: ↑06 Oct 2023 00:56I am trying to learn about any observation towers and MG Cupolas. Is an observation tower the same as a MG Cupola? By the way, which is the correct spelling for this gun fort, please?
- Kauko Hämäläinen - Joulu Kekinniemen sulkulinnakkeella v. 1939 (1970).
- Toivo Ahjopalo - Kekinniemen sulkulinnake talvisodassa (Part 1, 1978), Toivo Ahjopalo - Kekinniemen sulkulinnake talvisodassa (Part 2, 1978) and unredacted manuscript Toivo Ahjopalo - Kekinniemen sulkulinnakkeen osuudesta talvisodassa (1975)
Thank you so very much for this information. I wish you and yours, all the best!
Most respectfully and sincerely,
Robert
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Re: RTR 4
Mangrove, many thanks for this drawing. It makes quite clear that Heinäsenmaa battery initially had more complicated design compared to Konevitsa and Niikkana batteries.Mangrove wrote: ↑05 Oct 2023 16:48Here's a clip from a rather faded blueprint drawn by Merivoimien Esikunnan Linnoitusosasto ("Fortification Department of the HQ of the Navy") on 7 June 1943 for the first cannon at Heinäsenmaa (original at the National Archives of Finland, folder T-7737/2). All measurements are in centimetres, I believe. I have enhanced the lines a bit:
And here comes a real gem from Ääninen - based on this map,
I guess we found Lke 13 battery with 2/75/50-C guns:
The cape is named Pin'navolok in Russian (actually in Karelian) - sorry, I found no Finnish name. It is located at ca. 61.85095, 34.61613.
The uniqueness is that the guns were placed on wooden basements, and one of them is rather well-preserved till today. This was just the third wooden basement of Finnish guns I ever saw. Here is a couple of general views of the gunpit:
The gun basement studs after delicate cleaning:
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Last edited by Eugenius on 14 Oct 2023 19:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RTR 4
A couple of more pictures - note the number and variety of studs and bolts:
Here the wooden beams are clearly visible:
The second gunpit was located just in 60 m from the first one, and it was in much worse condition, and overgrown:
Note that gunpits are completely different. The first one is a real rectangular pit in earth while the second one was most likely of hexagonal shape and is located on the ground level with banking made of logs and sledged stones. The guns were placed at different time, or there could be any other explanation of the difference?
It looks someone tried to dig the second gunpit, but only damaged studs and bolts:
Removing the trees would take too much time and efforts, so we left the second gunpit as it was.
Many thanks to my colleague Vadim from Petrozavodsk, who shown me that really interesting artefact.
Here the wooden beams are clearly visible:
The second gunpit was located just in 60 m from the first one, and it was in much worse condition, and overgrown:
Note that gunpits are completely different. The first one is a real rectangular pit in earth while the second one was most likely of hexagonal shape and is located on the ground level with banking made of logs and sledged stones. The guns were placed at different time, or there could be any other explanation of the difference?
It looks someone tried to dig the second gunpit, but only damaged studs and bolts:
Removing the trees would take too much time and efforts, so we left the second gunpit as it was.
Many thanks to my colleague Vadim from Petrozavodsk, who shown me that really interesting artefact.
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Re: RTR 4
405. Kevyt Patteri (previously Linnake 13 or Lke 13) was located at a site the Finnish documents simply called Jalguba (Jallahti or Jaalalahti). The unit was initially part of Linnake 11 (with 2 x 152/45-C and 2 x 75 /50-C) near the so called "Gyllingin huvilat" (named after Edvard Gylling) at Uusiselkä or Užeselga south of Petrozavodsk from 21 January 1942 onwards until 9 April 1942. The battery received its own 75 mm cannons with Zenit-Meller mounts and the old ones were left at Uusiselkä.
405. Kevyt Patteri (also Linnake 14, SPK 17129) was transferred to Pieni Tsaz-niemi near Kulmus (Kulmuksa, Кулмукса, circa 62.0154, 34.7277) from August 1942 onwards.
Below is a crop of undated drawing of the Jalguba site made in or after August 1942. Original at the National Archives of Finland, folder T-15788/1352-1353.
Here are some excerpts from the war diary of 405. Kevyt patteri (SPK 17128):Eugenius wrote: ↑14 Oct 2023 19:20Note that gunpits are completely different. The first one is a real rectangular pit in earth while the second one was most likely of hexagonal shape and is located on the ground level with banking made of logs and sledged stones. The guns were placed at different time, or there could be any other explanation of the difference?
"10 April 1942. Started digging positions for the cannons. The soil is full of stones, so the use of explosives is necessary. [...] Construction work is poorly organized. Fortification destroyed. All the building materials as well as the cannons and ammunition are on the ice on the shore and despite the promises, there was no word of the horse. There were no connections to the outside world. The phone was promised in a week. The radio station cannot establish connection. The nearest telephone is at the field garrison of the 7th company of the "Heimosoturiprikaati' two kilometres away on an island, reception is poor."
"13 April 1942. The excavation of the artillery position continued. Large rocks were mostly removed from the way. [...]"
"14 April 1942. [...] The ordnance men arrived from the fort to set up the cannons. [...]"
"15 April 1942. The parts of the second cannon were brought to the foundation in the morning by horse and manpower. The foundation was completed just after morning and in the afternoon the cannon mount could be attached and at 5.00 PM the barrel was already in place. Binoculars and other heavier parts were attached in the evening. The second work group started excavating the first cannon pit. Plenty of explosives were used and even large rocks went off effortlessly. The pit got off to a good start."
"16 April 1942. [...] The second cannon was completely finished and at 10.30 a.m the first test shots were fired. [...] The excavation progressed as expected. The quality of the soil was a little easier than in the previous pit."
"17 April 1942. Excavation of the pit progressed beyond expectations and the pit was completed at 5.20 p.m. [...]"
"18 April 1942. [...] In the morning, construction work on the skid began and the mount and barrel were towed to the edge of the pit with the help of visitor's horses. In the afternoon, the skid was finished and the mount and the barrel were in place by the evening (but a lot of work was done until 6.00 p.m. [...]"
"21 April 1942. The position of the first cannon was made usable, although not yet finished. Trees were felled from the shooting direction. In the afternoon, started building a lookout tower and a stable for the horse. [...]"
"23 April 1942. Still working all day. The gun emplacement for the first cannon was completed. Likewise, fodder storage. [...]"
"25 April 1942. The building of the parapet of the second gun got off to a good start. Hatches were made to the ammunition compartments of the first cannon and more shelves were built in the barracks [...]"
"26 April 1942. The parapet of the second cannon was completed. The ammunition compartments were completed. [...]"
"28 April 1942. The wooden parts of the parapet for the cannons were brought to full height and the surroundings started to be filled with earth, logs and stones. [...]"
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Last edited by Mangrove on 16 Oct 2023 07:53, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: RTR 4
Yalguba is a gulf north of Pin'navolok cape, and also a village on north shore of the gulf. The gulf south of Pin'navolok cape is called Pin'guba. Generally "guba" is a Karelian name for "gulf".
Many thanks for sharing really interesting details of construction of gun positions. Indeed the cape is formed of stones, and it was not easy to walk there as stones were covered with moss. It looks the left flank gun position was made on ground level to save time and explosives for digging stony earth. Ammo storages in the right flank gunpit (the rectangular one with gun basement preserved) are still rather visible.
Mangrove, could you please remind me: what do black triangles on maps mean?
Are those fire control towers, or headquarters of some units, or something else?
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Re: RTR 4
Dear Eugenius and Mangrove,
Thank you for sharing these drawings. I asked a few days ago about the Finnish Gun Fort of Kekinniemen. You helped me to learn about this fort. QUESTION #1: Was the Gun Fort at Patoniemi designed the same as the Gun Fort at Kekinniemem? QUESTION #2: Did I spell the name of the Gun Fort at "Patoniemi" correctly? QUESTION #3: Is there something I may read on the Gun Fort of Patoniemi?
Again, thank you both for sharing and helping me to learn!
All the best,
Robert
Thank you for sharing these drawings. I asked a few days ago about the Finnish Gun Fort of Kekinniemen. You helped me to learn about this fort. QUESTION #1: Was the Gun Fort at Patoniemi designed the same as the Gun Fort at Kekinniemem? QUESTION #2: Did I spell the name of the Gun Fort at "Patoniemi" correctly? QUESTION #3: Is there something I may read on the Gun Fort of Patoniemi?
Again, thank you both for sharing and helping me to learn!
All the best,
Robert
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Re: RTR 4
Hi Robert,Robert M Hammond wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 05:36Dear Eugenius and Mangrove,
Thank you for sharing these drawings. I asked a few days ago about the Finnish Gun Fort of Kekinniemen. You helped me to learn about this fort. QUESTION #1: Was the Gun Fort at Patoniemi designed the same as the Gun Fort at Kekinniemem? QUESTION #2: Did I spell the name of the Gun Fort at "Patoniemi" correctly? QUESTION #3: Is there something I may read on the Gun Fort of Patoniemi?
Again, thank you both for sharing and helping me to learn!
All the best,
Robert
I believe Mangrove has much more knowledge than I do to answer your questions. Probably you may find some info in this publication of Erkki Marttila: http://rt3maisemissa.blogspot.com/2006/ ... missa.html See Part III Suvannon sulkulinnakkeet – mitä löytyy maastosta vuonna 2002? https://www.sotasampo.fi/en/ could be another source of knowledge. I may just note, that all Vuoksi/Suvanto forts as well as most of other Finnish fortification objects built on the Karelian Isthmus before Winter War, were blown up in 1940, when the war ended. Here are some pictures of Patoniemi fort taken in December 2014:
Kekinniemi (that's correct name) Fort was destroyed to such extent, that there was nothing to picture there except on several lumps of concrete.
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Re: RTR 4
They are most likely combined maritime and aircraft observation towers made out of wood. Headquarters were usually indicated with a flag symbol.
The best published source is "Vuoksen-suvannon -linjan Sulkulinnakkeet Talvisodassa" by Jari-Pekka Kettula. Unfortunately, it was only published as a thesis in the National Defence University in 2001. You might get a copy via the library of the National Defence University for a cost.Robert M Hammond wrote: ↑16 Oct 2023 05:36QUESTION #3: Is there something I may read on the Gun Fort of Patoniemi?
There are some paragraphs about the forts in the after-action report by Laatokan Meripuolustus. There is a series of aerial photographs taken of Kelja on 19 October 1939.