RTR 4

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Eugenius
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Posts: 356
Joined: 18 Dec 2017 19:31
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia

Re: RTR 4

Post by Eugenius » 21 Nov 2023 17:06

148555.jpg

Comment to SA-kuva pictures says: Keskiö, jossa kaikki tarkat ja tärkeät laskelmat tehdään toiminnan aikana. Haapana 1944.04.12. For me it's still not quite clear, what kind of keskiö was that - headquarters of some unit, or intelligence centre, or communication centre, or anything else? Second, I have no idea how such a huge embankment was created - each boulder probably weighs around a ton or so, and the pile is ca. 3 m high. Humans might not do that by hands - were cranes or hoists used, or what? I never saw such an impressive banking.

Another object found at 60.7121, 32.82289 is of unknown purpose. There were 8 (? - some of them were buried) quite low rectangular supports or pillars made of concrete, and a rectangular concrete slab lying on top of them. It looks like there was a wooden building with concrete roof standing there on those concrete supports - the wood rotted and the roof fell down. Search at SA-kuva brought no result:

DSCN0284 60.7121, 32.82289.JPG

Well, it looks it was the last field trip of this season as winter already came. I use this chance to thank Mangrove once again for priceless maps and other materials he provided.
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Mangrove
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Re: RTR 4

Post by Mangrove » 22 Nov 2023 13:17

- List of fortification works at Haapana between 16 and 17 October 1943: "In Haapana, the stone paving/covering for the gun positions is ready, except for the one in front."
Eugenius wrote:
21 Nov 2023 17:06
Comment to SA-kuva pictures says: Keskiö, jossa kaikki tarkat ja tärkeät laskelmat tehdään toiminnan aikana. Haapana 1944.04.12. For me it's still not quite clear, what kind of keskiö was that - headquarters of some unit, or intelligence centre, or communication centre, or anything else?
Keskiö received information from the observation and rangefinder towers, made the appropriate calculations and gave fire commands to the guns. The headquarters of the battery containing the unit archives et cetera were located in a different dugout.

- War diary of 39. Raskas Patteri: "2 July 1943. [...] 5 p.m. The combat central Salpa and the general [communications?] Hoikka central were combined into one and the new Salpa central was placed in the central [keskiö] dugout."

- War diary of 39. Raskas Patteri: "28 July 1943. [...] 7 a.m. The laying of the cable was started from the central [keskiö] dugout to the guns and the measuring tower."

- War diary of 39. Raskas Patteri: "11 September 1943. The new central [keskiö] was taken into use during an exercise."

- War diary of 39. Raskas Patteri: "17 December 1943. Telephone installation work started in the central [keskiö]".

Eugenius
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Posts: 356
Joined: 18 Dec 2017 19:31
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia

Re: RTR 4

Post by Eugenius » 23 Nov 2023 10:21

Mangrove wrote:
22 Nov 2023 13:17
- List of fortification works at Haapana between 16 and 17 October 1943: "In Haapana, the stone paving/covering for the gun positions is ready, except for the one in front."
Mangrove, many thanks for your comments. Does it mean so, that 2 gun emplacements were completed only by mid-October 1943, and installation of the third gun was probably cancelled at all?

Concerning keskiö - I never saw such a massive stone banking of any other Finnish object. When you see this giant pile of boulders "in the middle of nowhere", the first idea is: "This is the ancient sanctuary". Is there any info like construction report concerning how the works were performed? I mean how did the Finns manage to put one heavy boulder on top of another one? Did they use any cranes or just hoists?

Mangrove
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Joined: 25 Dec 2004 01:33

Re: RTR 4

Post by Mangrove » 23 Nov 2023 13:39

Eugenius wrote:
23 Nov 2023 10:21
Does it mean so, that 2 gun emplacements were completed only by mid-October 1943, and installation of the third gun was probably cancelled at all?
The original Canet bases at Haapaniemi / Haapana were made out of wood. The logs for the bases of two Canet were received on 10 January 1942. One of the parapets was finished on 19 January 1942. The Canet positions were ready by March 1942 along with a rangefinding station. Ammunition dugouts for the Canet and a "forward observation dugout" (keskiö?) were being built in April 1942.

There is no mention when the third Canet arrived but it is mentioned by early 1942. The Canet positions are depicted in SA-Kuva 75355 - 75362. The underground ammunition dugouts were semi-completed by April 1942 but were flooded and work was not continued for the next few months. The Canet positions built out of only wood during the late 1941 and early 1942 proved to be unstable and had to be repaired with packed sand in April 1942.

During an inspection by Colonel Marjanen during June 1942, it was decided to move the three Canets to concrete bases and to improve the Canet positions by moving the first gun 20 metres to the left (from the point of the gun?), leave the second and third gun where they were but raise the position of the third gun by 50 centimetres. The gun positions would form a triangle.

Starting in August 1942, The first Canet out of three was being installed on a concrete base and the second Canet was in a new, temporary, position somewhere in the area. The second Canet was installed on a concrete base on 2 November 1942 and the third one starting on 7 December 1942. At the same time the parapets were made higher and filled with sand and rocks.
Eugenius wrote:
23 Nov 2023 10:21
Concerning keskiö - I never saw such a massive stone banking of any other Finnish object. When you see this giant pile of boulders "in the middle of nowhere", the first idea is: "This is the ancient sanctuary". Is there any info like construction report concerning how the works were performed? I mean how did the Finns manage to put one heavy boulder on top of another one? Did they use any cranes or just hoists?
Here is a summary of the fortification works done by Laatokan puolustus / Laatokan rannikkoprikaati in 1941. Originals at the National Archives of Finland, folder T-7736/7. It mentions no power tools were used, except a pneumatic jackhammer during the construction of the concrete bases for Canets at Puutsaari. Concrete mixers and portable sawmills were used in later in some sites.

The construction work in the Lake Ladoga was mostly done by the battery crews. Some work was also done by Rannikkopioneerikomppania under Laatokan puolustus / Laatokan rannikkoprikaati. Rocks were most likely lifted with hand powered cranes (see e.g. SA-Kuva 79793).

Fortifications_Ladoga_1941.jpg
Fortifications_Ladoga_1941_2.jpg
Fortifications_Ladoga_1941_3.jpg
Fortifications_Ladoga_1941_4.jpg
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Eugenius
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Posts: 356
Joined: 18 Dec 2017 19:31
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia

Re: RTR 4

Post by Eugenius » 24 Nov 2023 10:43

Dear Mangrove, many thanks for sharing such interesting details concerning that battery. It's pity we did not find the third gun position, but... On the one hand, it's really not easy to get there; on the other hand, we checked all possible locations of the third gun, but probably we just failed to understand the logic of the builders. First 2 gun basements were found very quickly and easily, and we did not expect any problem to find the third one.

So, it looks the third gun location will remain a mystery. Finally, we have to leave something to other researches, who will explore that area and that battery after us.

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